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On this week’s episode of “On The Tape,” Dan and Danny discuss the Fed minutes (0:01:39), similarities to the financial crisis (0:08:40), mega-cap tech stocks (0:11:27), bank earnings on tap (0:16:45), why gold can’t rally (0:21:27), and what could send the S&P 500 back through the lows (0:27:19) . Later, Guy and Danny turn the table on Dan and interview him about his career, how he got started at CNBC, his avid music fandom, and his illustrious lacrosse career.
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Show Transcript:
Guy Adami: [00:00:00] CME Ad [00:00:01][0.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:01:20] IConnections AD. Welcome to on the tape I’m Dan Nathan. I’m here with Danny Moses. Guy, a dummy is off for the week. Danny, how are you? [00:01:28][8.6]
Danny Moses: [00:01:29] I’m good, buddy. I’m jealous of the trip, which you are about to take. Very jealous. [00:01:32][3.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:01:33] I am about. It’s like. Did it it it did it do. I’m going to London. This is why we are recording this Wednesday into the clothes. Like I said, guy is not here. Danny and I are covering all of the action this week on on the tape and actually stick around because after we cover this week’s volatility, which we’ve had a lot of and a lot of different risk assets, we are going to continue our series better known on the tape podcast hosts where Danny and Guy interview me. That’ll be fun. That was fun, actually. We did that last week, so check that out. All right, Daniel, let’s do it. It’s Wednesday afternoon. We got about 45 minutes left in the trading day. It’s already been a very volatile week. We’ve only had two trading days, but we had the Fed minutes that just came out from their last meeting. What was that from mid-June or so? We have another Fed meeting coming in July. The CME Fed Funds Futures Tracker is basically saying very strong likelihood of another 75 basis point increase. What did you take away from the Fed minutes? And let’s talk about some of the reactions that we’re seeing across risk markets. [00:02:29][55.9]
Danny Moses: [00:02:29] Yeah. So the minutes basically they said we need to talk a big game because we need to get inflation down, the expectations for inflation down. And they basically said in the minutes that over the next few weeks, which is now, we’re going to keep talking a big game because we want to convince the markets that we’re going to do whatever it takes. But if you read what they actually said in there, I mean, they basically that’s exactly what they said. And so you’re seeing a reaction. The first reaction, the market was down. I’m not sure why the Fed minutes did nothing but tell us what we already know, which is the Fed is talking a bigger game than I think they will actually follow through with. And so we’ll see. We’re having a lot of moves here. Obviously, Treasury markets are very volatile. Oil is very volatile. [00:03:05][35.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:03:06] Let’s talk about treasuries because I think it’s truly astounding. If Guy was here right now, I think he’d be jumping out the window with what we’ve seen just today in the two year Treasury yield traded as low as 2.76. It’s trading right now about 2.96%. That is an extraordinary percentage move, especially an intraday range for two point whatever yield. Right. On a two year note, what did the Fed minutes say that caused that spike that we’ve seen over the last hour, hour and a half? Obviously, the yield have been coming in. We’ve seen the 2/10 spread invert. It is the widest spread, wouldn’t you say, Danny, that we’ve had. It’s five or six bips or something like that. So what has happened specifically in this minutes? And then we’re going to talk about stocks, crude dollar gold. [00:03:49][43.5]
Danny Moses: [00:03:50] We already had this inversion, right, that had already occurred. I think we’re four bips inverted on the 210. Basically nothing it could change the way this market’s trading. It could change in a minute. But what it did was this I think I think because they said we’re going to talk a tough game until we don’t have to. I think they have to moment. People may think it’s coming sooner rather than later. Therefore, I know this sounds as contraindicated, but I’ve been saying this for a while. You would rather have the economy have a better chance for a soft landing. Let’s not talk about the two year for a second. Let’s talk about the ten year. Ten year yields going higher here, I think is actually healthier sign for the equity market than the ten year going down because the belief will be the Fed will overshoot so much that it will cause a massive recession and a slowdown and therefore the ten year yields should reflect that. So to me, this is telling us that they’re talking big game, but with the data we’re going to see and let me tell you something, if you’re a bull right now, you’re rooting for a negative jobs print, why would you root for negative jobs on a Friday? Because you already had a negative GDP in Q1. You probably can have a negative GDP in Q2, give the definition of some type of recession already out there. So that’s kind of priced into the market. We’re going to go into earnings season. One of the keys in here was about mortgage backed securities, which as we know, is a multiple trillion part of the Fed’s balance sheet, which is being unwound here with treasuries and the rolling them off. And the concern has been that they’ve talked a big game in that it’s made mortgages sell off more than they probably should have relative to treasuries. They said that they’re going to reinvest mortgage backed securities, the amount of principles from the Federal Reserve Holdings if they exceed 17 and a half billion. They also said, I think this is key and I didn’t see anyone report on this. They will allow modest deviations from stated amounts for reinvestments if needed for operational reasons. Well, what would the operational reasons would be if they lose control, the mortgage market goes haywire. I thought that was interesting. If I’m reading that correctly, it’s telling you that they will adjust on the fly. That should be very bullish for the market. I’m not looking at homebuilder stocks right now or where mortgage rates are relative to treasuries, but I would take something away from that, that they’re acknowledging that things have gone a little bit crazy in the mortgage market. So, again, Diane, let me just say, I think people underestimate the amount of trading on treasuries relative to mortgages. There are books that up on the street or fixed income funds. When you buy a mortgage backed securities sell, you do the corresponding Treasury trade, whatever that may be. And I think that’s also crazy. So go ahead then. [00:06:00][129.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:06:00] So you think that’s adding to the volatility this week? I just think that it’s about as confusing as you could get with the dollar rallying at multi-year highs, the degree of the US dollar index above 107, it’s just on a runaway breakout. We know that the euro is making 20 year lows and a big part of that dixy that basket against the US dollar is euro. So we just talked about. A move in yields. I think obviously crude oil just in the last two weeks is down 20% or so. It got absolutely creamed on Tuesday, down 10%. And that had little to do with anything geopolitical, which we all agree was a large part of the move up earlier this year. And at some point, when you start considering what is a soft landing look like, well, you have copper that’s absolutely got destroyed over the last couple of months. You have wheat that’s come in a lot. We just mentioned crude. There’s other industrial metals that have just been absolutely destroyed also. So does that play into it a little bit? If the commodity complex comes in hard enough and stays down enough, does that give the Fed a little bit of cover? I understand that we’re going to get this June jobs print and it’s going to be again. Do you want a negative print? Do you want a strong print? Your guess is as good as mine. But ultimately there is a scenario maybe where some of these risk assets that have been going haywire because of all of this uncertainty, maybe all of it starts to moderate a little bit and they find new levels and then the Fed can kind of take their foot off the pedal on the hiking front. [00:07:21][80.9]
Danny Moses: [00:07:21] The argument will be that some of those things you’re talking about were indeed transitory or impacted by other things, lack of liquidity in the market. You don’t get moves. I mean, I don’t know what standard deviation that is in these metals in in oil. Right. There’s massive you’ve never seen anything like that before. So we are in uncharted territory. And so the answer would be yes. It gives the Fed complete cover and it should blend its way in over time into their numbers. And what’s interesting is that during the Fed minutes, they also basically were citing near term like literally to the minute CPI print to the minute economic numbers citing that. So if you were to keep with that same feel and you go into the July 26, 27th meeting time frame and we start to see things slowing in conjunction with earnings, which we don’t think will be very good. We can talk about that in a moment. You would think, again, that the Fed’s going to pull back. And again, Fed fund futures are indicating that the Fed is not going to go to their stated 3.4, 3.5 number. This is not going to happen. So again, I think it just adds another element. But I think the Fed gave too much credence to the point you’re making about all the rip and the upside in the metals and stuff, and now they’re going to have to acknowledge the other way. [00:08:24][62.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:08:24] What think it’s really clear to me, Danny, is that whole idea, the back and forth on transitory as far as inflation was concerned, if Russia had not invaded Ukraine and we didn’t have the potential disruption to wheat and obviously natural gas and Europe’s dependance on Russian oil and all the sanctions, we just wouldn’t be in this position. We wouldn’t be having these inflationary prints and we wouldn’t have all of the disruption as far as supply, in my opinion, I don’t think the Fed was so far off. I think where they got really screwed up is that they stayed in. You and I. We were all yelling about this last year. Why are they still by $40 billion a month? NBS So they overheated so many different markets and we’re starting to see anecdotally have you seen on Twitter I’ve seen San Diego, which was one of the hottest markets, down 20 some percent over the last quarter or something like that. [00:09:10][45.6]
Danny Moses: [00:09:10] Real estate we’re talking about. [00:09:11][0.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:09:11] Yeah, real estate. Las Vegas. Again, this is residential real estate. It feels like it’s 2008. I feel like a watching the Adam McKay movie with my friend with the bushy eyebrows Danny Moses in there, doesn’t it feel like all over again? And then the other thing is just throw this in here. It feels like there’s lots of elements to the financial crisis, if you will. If you look at what’s going on in crypto and you’ve been talking about this, all the leverage you’ve been talking about the stablecoins, there was systemic risk as it relates to within that ecosystem. It hasn’t really shown itself in the traditional banking system. There was a great article, Andrew Ross Sorkin in New York Times DealBook earlier in the week where he talked about just the crypto collapse and that Wall Street won and they avoided all the disasters. So there’s lots of elements to these prior crises, don’t you agree? [00:09:56][44.8]
Danny Moses: [00:09:57] Yeah, there’s all kinds of things going on here. The channel, my inner guy Adam here, he’d be talking about a guy born in 1911 who had the great song, which encompasses all of this, which is the great Robert Johnson, which is credited with literally starting blues and rock and roll. And Crossroads was his song. And so that’s where we are. And again. [00:10:15][18.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:10:15] Give me a little we went down to the crossroads. Can’t do any of that. [00:10:17][2.4]
Danny Moses: [00:10:18] I cannot a good Clapton. But it’s been done by 20 bands. I’m going to give you a little bit of Pearl Jam later today. No, but that’s where we are. And it’s really choose your own adventure here and create your own narrative by the minute, by the hour. And that’s just not healthy in terms of how you got to trade. People going to have to start to dig in, lengthen their time frame or how they’re thinking about risk reward on certain things. Focus on fundamentals, buy the stocks that they want. Forget about shorting for a second. Buy the stocks that they want. Dan, you’ve been talking about it. You’ve been doing it now for a couple of weeks. Dollar cost averaging, dip your toe in. Let’s see how these quarters are going to be. You’re going to get outsized moves both to the upside and the downside of these and take advantage of them. But you’re going to have to basically, if you’re a portfolio manager or a professional investor, start to come up with a theme. And it’s very, very difficult when your inputs in all the things you just mentioned, are changing by the second. And that has to do even in crypto land with companies that aren’t directly in crypto but are in it in some form or fashion, have a business line that is going to show growth because of it. That has to factor in if it’s an interest rate plug in and it’s some type of bank or financial that plugs in. If it’s an energy company, it plugs in if it’s a build. Ah. And you all these material cost. You plug it in like how do you weigh how far you want these things to come down? But not too much to indicate that we’re going into a massive recession. So there’s no one answer to that question then. [00:11:31][73.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:11:31] And I guess my point is, you’ve been covering the buy now, pay later. There’s a subprime element. There was a housing element. There was this really speculative equity market element. I mean, there was lots of different things. I mean, we’ve been calling them out for the last 18 months and they all seem to have come together or cascaded together over the last few months. One thing I think is really interesting, Danny, is that the MAGA complex, as I call it, the Microsoft, the Apple, the Google and Amazon, look at them all today. They’re all up about a one and a half, 2% here as we’re about 35 minutes into the close on Wednesday. And they were some of the first stocks to go up. I think they’re kind of a flight to quality right now, if you think about it. If you look at all of the charts to Microsoft, Apple and Google are all down about 21, 22% over the last couple of weeks from their highs or from the recent highs this year. Amazon down a bit more. The patterns all look the same on the charts. They all did not make new lows with the S&P when it was a couple of weeks ago. I think that’s really interesting. So it almost feels like we’re trying to put a little bit of a near term bottoming into Q2 earnings because then you can agree with this, right? There’s a scenario where maybe the results aren’t that bad and the guidance isn’t that bad to justify selling another leg lower in the stock market. [00:12:44][73.0]
Danny Moses: [00:12:45] Now I seem to recognize your face. Haunting, familiar. Yeah. So these are familiar names. These are safe names. They’re not going to blow you up. They’re down enough where even if they start to miss because of currency, you can feel safer owning them. It is a true flight to quality here and I think with rates coming down like they did, even though they’re kind of going back up a little bit today, it’s a little bit of cover there because that’s how they’re kind of programed to trade that way. So I think that’s why those are acting that way. Those are going to be the defensive names for this cycle, for sure. [00:13:14][29.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:13:14] It is also interesting, I don’t know if you saw this headline. Amazon made a small investment in GrubHub, which is the online delivery company, and as soon as they did that, it’s meaningless, I guess for Amazon. If you think about it, they’re going to layer in those services to Prime, which is great. They’ve been adding services to Prime for 20 years since they introduced it. But look at DoorDash. I think it was down like 10% or something like that. Uber, obviously, Uber Eats is a big part of their business right now, also getting destroyed. So I think we’re also in this part of the market where some of these big incumbents are going to have the opportunity to flex as it relates to spending their way out of a recession, if you will. I don’t know if you remember that saying I think it was a CEO at Intel two decades ago, used to say we just spend our way out of recessions and then we’re really set up well to come out of this thing. And on the way out. [00:13:59][44.9]
Danny Moses: [00:14:00] Listen, the most vulnerable names in this market are the ones with no earnings. What are the earnings projections in 2022 for Uber and DoorDash? You’re vulnerable by nature when you don’t have something to fall back upon. So you’re just seeing that get exacerbated, obviously on announcements like that. And so it’s good that people are still paying attention and it’s another excuse to not own. Those aren’t meme stocks, obviously, but to not own names, which have not proven in the easiest money cycle in the history of mankind that they could excel and they didn’t. And so if we didn’t do it, then how are they going to do it now? I think is kind of the question. [00:14:30][31.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:14:31] So, yeah, no, I mean, listen, the stocks were excelling for a while because of the basically the easy money cycle. But the path to profitability was never particularly clear for a lot of these business models. And again, I mean, I think that’s the story of the last couple of years. It was that pull forward that actually made so many investors aware of these stories, their ability to capture growth in a very unique market. But it was that deceleration that we saw in early 2021. And a lot of these business models that made a lot of investors just run for the hills. And the other thing I’ll just say is like Netflix, this is not a company that was born in the last five years, the free money sort of era. It goes back to the late nineties, but the stock is down 70%. Facebook, again, this company went public in 2012, is going to have $125 billion in sales this year. That stock is down 50%. So the point here is that there’s meme stocks. Then there’s companies that were born in this period of just easy capital with no earnings. And then there’s real companies that are just basically seeing material deceleration in their growth. So to me, I find the latter kind of interesting. I mean, I mentioned it, you just mentioned it. I’m picking up things like Netflix and at net and that snap. And I think that these are companies that once this economy, however, comes out soft or hard landing, these are going to be companies that are going to have to make some pivots. They’re going to have to readjust their business models. But I think some of the best tech companies are going to use this last couple of years to really reorient how their workforces are, how they think about profitability on a per employee basis. I actually think this is almost a generational reset and some of those sort of Internet names completely agree. [00:16:09][98.6]
Danny Moses: [00:16:10] And I think the other thing Dan is, is a group of investors that have been kind of hit hard here that aren’t professional investors, but they’ve been a massive part of the market. It is what it is. I don’t think that many of them need to. Shift their focus away. Like I said just now, go find the quarry. Stop trying to chase the dirt and try to pick a bottom in them. Because the end of day dirt is dirt and it’s not going to accelerate no matter how this thing turns out. I don’t believe the odds of a soft landing I think are below 5%. But that being said, again, stop looking for that kind of a quick hit and by the quality. And I think that’s a very tough adjustment. Let me answer your other question, because I think it’s almost like a stock. The amount of homes that came for sale in San Diego, Las Vegas is really what we’re talking about, the amount of supply which quick people waited and waited and waited and all of a sudden inflation started to hit them personally. They thought their home will keep going up in value when they flood the market. It’s really as simple as thinking of it as just an asset that they had, like the store park and putting it up for sale. But it definitely with mortgage rates going up in conjunction with that, it certainly was easy to see that would come up at some point. So. [00:17:06][56.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:17:07] All right. Let’s talk real quickly. Money center banks are going to report next week. Start reporting here, JPMorgan at 112 and a half. It’s down 27 and a half percent on the year. It’s down more than 30% from its all time highs in October. We’ve talked about this group an awful lot here. But in this rate environment, in this mortgage environment, in this consumer lending environment, so we’re seeing it on multiple different levels. We just mentioned buy now, pay later. We’re seeing defaults rise there. That’s more of a subprime thing. But we’re also seeing stocks like American Express trading at 52 week lows, down tremendously in just a matter of months, where it looked like they were bucking any and all negative consumer trends. What are your expectations into these prints here and how do you think these stocks trade on the way out? Because they’ve obviously led to the downside all year long. [00:17:54][46.9]
Danny Moses: [00:17:54] Yeah, listen, a lot of these banks, some of them have more exposure to Wall Street, some don’t. So let’s talk about the Wall Street banks for a second. Obviously, capital markets have been hit. And I talk about initial public offerings, IPOs, mergers and acquisitions or low debt. All this has been dead. That’s kind of priced in. The one thing that hasn’t been priced in is people thought you would have massive loan growth, you have loans being originated, but obviously at very different levels. And I think people thought and the most important thing to me is credit. And many of these Wall Street banks, some more than others, Jp morgan, Wells Fargo, Bank of America have very large consumer exposure. And so, again, it’s nothing catastrophic. But the banks that have not reserved properly for losses or of under reserves are the ones you want to stay away from. And I said it on our market call yesterday, run from the bank, which somehow releases reserves. I don’t think that will occur, but we’re just going into a new paradigm and there’s a shift here going on. And again, I think these stocks will be viewed like they’re really utility stocks in kind of a down market. They’re not in danger, they’re well capitalized and so forth. But you start to get towards 1.2, 1.3 times book on some of these. Let’s forget about Citi for a minute, whether it has its own exposures, but Jp morgan, Goldman Sachs, Bank, American, these things they’ll start to become very, very interesting and we may again tezos levels and I’m talking tangible book not book value. And so it’ll be interesting to see. I think these companies will continue to earn. I don’t think there’s losses coming. I think people do fear a loss in a commodity. I mean, you can’t have moves in this day and you open the show with these metals and materials and oil. And so somebody wearing that, whether it’s a fund or a bank. So I think people are just a little bit cautious. If we stay in this environment we’re in right now and these stocks stay down, it’s probably going to be a buy the news event, in my opinion, less or something catastrophic now. [00:19:32][97.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:19:32] Well, here’s the one thing I’ll just say this of Carter. Braxton Worth was here on the day of the vaccine announcements back in early November 2020, J.P. Morgan gapped up from like 105 to about 110 and then just never looked back and look at the stock here at 112. It’s right above that gap. I mean, that gap is going to be filled. It probably comes in to 100. But your point is, is that under a soft landing scenario, you probably have one or two more difficult quarters for these large money center banks and you maybe see another ten, 15, 20% downside that’s off the table if it’s a hard landing. So the risk reward is starting to look pretty favorable is kind of what you’re thinking for these well-capitalized banks that are going to actually benefit if we do just have a mild recession and then they start earning their way out as capital markets activity comes back, as loans come back, as residential mortgages come back, right. All that sort of stuff. [00:20:23][51.0]
Danny Moses: [00:20:24] I mean, I can’t tell everyone out there whether you invest in Jp morgan or Wells Fargo, long short how crucial it is, either listen to the conference call, read the transcript. I know it sounds boring, but they’re going to give you a look into everything going on in the corporate business, in the consumer business, Wall Street business, you’re going to get a pretty good look. So take the time. Don’t just read the headlines. Take the time to read it. I know you want if you want a real picture and Jamie Dimon, listen, say what you want about him. But he’s had a pretty good grip on things now for decades. He’s not dumb. He knows what’s going on. So let’s listen to what he has to say. I’m sure he’s going to mention the Fed a couple of times or a certain way and tell them they might be overshooting. Indeed, he may cry a little bit about that, but let’s see what happens. [00:21:01][37.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:21:02] Yeah, I would just say this that yeah, Jamie Demme’s a smart guy, but he also knows how to play the environment a little bit. And I think back to January when the markets were very volatile, Jp morgan, like I said earlier, was underperforming the broad market and Jamie had indicated a somewhat positive sort of outlook. And then by the time it. Was there? Q One print in mid April, he was a bit more negative and then when the other analysts mean so he kept on changing his tune a whole heck of a lot. And remember, he’s the guy in 2022 that brought us an economic hurricane is coming. So for all that said, I mean, I think a lot of these guys have to understand the environment and where their stocks are trading and then use a somewhat measured tone about how they see things playing out because they have no crystal ball. It’s just like dumb podcasters like us. All right, Danny, let’s talk about this, because you earlier in the year, you smoked me and another bet. I think regular listeners know that you kind of have my number here. But this was in gold and you thought gold was going to make a quick run to 2000. And it did. And it went parabolic in that period in February into early March, when we had all that geopolitical uncertainty when Russia started rolling tanks into Ukraine. Well, since then, it’s been an absolute train wreck. This week it’s gotten absolutely destroyed here. The chart looks horrible. So talk to me a little bit about this because like what’s going on here? I know that this is the boomer trade. Give me an update. What are the boomers saying about their gold? [00:22:25][82.8]
Danny Moses: [00:22:25] It’s down 2% in the last six months, or even less than that at this point. Just because it hasn’t looked great recently, it’s been one of the best performing assets. [00:22:33][7.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:22:33] If it can’t rally highest inflationary period in 40 years, where expectations even for the balance of this year are higher than they have been for 40 years, when is it ever going to rally? [00:22:43][9.8]
Danny Moses: [00:22:44] I don’t disagree that it’s underperformed where I thought it would be, but I’m just putting it in absolute terms. It’s one of the better performing assets that’s out there. Find a better one. You now have a large short interest, obviously in gold. We see that on a weekly basis. It’s called The Commitment of Traders Report. No one’s going to look at it to see what comes out Friday. We kind of have an overselling. I think you had a little bit of geopolitical impact with the inability of Russia to use gold, obviously, in trade, which got blocked in there. You obviously have an economic slowdown. There is an economic part, but look at silver down. I think silver is down 26%. People used to put those things together. So let me separate gold and silver. Second, I’m still a big, big believer in this. I think people are making too big a deal. I agree with you. It hasn’t work like it should. I hope all the bitcoin people out there that said, oh, you’ll see, why don’t we do that comparison first, which was I got made fun of last year for gold versus Bitcoin. We’ll just end with that. But I’m a big believer here in gold. [00:23:32][48.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:23:33] No, we’re not ending with it. We’re not done with this thing because there was a tweet. I got to bring this up because it’s going to tweak you a little bit. It’s from a guy named Macro Tourist. Okay. He said a simple cheat sheet for gold traders. Here is the columns. Event impact reasoning yields up bad competition for gold zero yields down bad declining inflation fears oil up bad energy input cost going up oil down bad. This is all bad for gold. Global recession fears stocks up bad risk on safe haven shut stocks down bad for gold risk off margins selling dollar up bad inverse correlation to gold dollar down bad any gold tax looming open interest up bad too many long positions open interest down bad investors losing interest. I love this tweet. I think it’s such a great troll for all these gold bugs. Okay, so talk to me. Tell me why the macro tourist is wrong. [00:24:24][50.9]
Danny Moses: [00:24:24] Because you have negative real rates. That’s why. And gold will work in that environment for sure. And he doesn’t mention geopolitical. [00:24:30][5.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:30] And we’ve had negative real rates for years. [00:24:32][2.1]
Danny Moses: [00:24:33] If you think we’re not making a bet right now, I’m going to make this so tasty for you. Where’s gold right now? 1740. Yeah. Okay. [00:24:39][6.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:40] I’m not positioned. [00:24:40][0.4]
Danny Moses: [00:24:41] I don’t care. This is going to be too good. I’ll take 2000. [00:24:43][2.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:45] Yeah. [00:24:45][0.0]
Danny Moses: [00:24:45] You can have 1600. [00:24:46][0.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:47] Yeah. [00:24:47][0.0]
Danny Moses: [00:24:47] Okay. Yeah. Any amount of money that you want? [00:24:50][2.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:50] No. Here’s the deal, dude. I don’t like pressing it. It’s basically trading very near a 52 week low. So I’m not saying that it’s going to break down and go down another 400 points. Likelihood is that snaps back to that 1850. So I’m not doing that right now. And here’s the thing. This is how I feel about you and your gold. I know someday you’ll have a beautiful life. I know you’ll be a star. But it’s somebody else’s sky. It’s just not going to be in my. [00:25:14][23.9]
Danny Moses: [00:25:14] I know someday you’ll have. Yeah, it will. Because listen, again, you started out this segment on gold with this things that it’s down less than 2% but it’s. [00:25:24][10.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:25:24] Not doing the thing that you buy gold for. [00:25:27][2.3]
Danny Moses: [00:25:27] But then on a relative basis, it is doing it. And you know what? The dollar is the main reason, all those ten things you just mentioned, gold is denominated in dollars. It’s pretty simple that that’s what’s been going on, but I’ll stand by it. I’m a buyer here. I think we’ve actually seen the lows in this thing. I think we hit the lows today, 1725 or 1720 somewhere. I don’t know what gold closed. I know it turns prior to the market closing, but I think the lows have been put in. So let’s just leave it at that. I’m a buyer of gold. [00:25:51][23.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:25:51] Then let’s take some stock of where we are here. So the Fed minutes are out. I think that I see the stock market, the S&P into the close now is up nearly 1%. The NASDAQ is up 1.2%. So whatever they said, investors aren’t particularly worried as it relates to stocks. We’ve seen yields spike. We see the dollar continue to move higher. Crude really hasn’t done a whole heck of a lot trade 98 and a half. It’s definitely off of its lows today. The Dixie’s still around 107, so it’s off of its highs. Bitcoin. Who cares? It’s like. 20,000 others shot. What do you think here? We had a really horrible close to Q2. We had two consecutive negative quarters for the stock market. We got off to a kind of shaky start here. Banks are next week. How do you think the market traders that do we rally into that? [00:26:35][44.2]
Danny Moses: [00:26:36] I don’t think we rally into it. I think we’re just going to churn here. Literally, it’s just a wash every single day. Up, down, sideways. There’s not a clear direction in this market. We won’t have that, I don’t think, for a few weeks. I think that the jobs this jobs print, it’s just a number. But it’s very important considering how the Fed obviously for the minutes they told us how they react to the nearest thing that happens. What I was most recent. So what do you want in that number? Obviously, I don’t think a negative number is good, but something below to 50 is probably good for people. And then you’re going to go in, you’re going to get the banks, you’re going to come out. It’s not going to be pretty darn. The banks may earn okay, but I think that the outlook won’t be good. And then I think we’re going to get some preannouncements here coming. I’m surprised we haven’t had more. [00:27:15][39.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:27:16] We might not. I mean, I actually thought we would we somebody trolled us on Twitter about your Friday night dirties. I responded with the Tesla deliveries that they were just filthy and they were filthy down 18%. And I also think that money burning furnaces comment like you should have really filed an AK on that. I mean, there’s just so much crap going on there, so we might not have any big downgrades or negative preannouncements. The one thing I’ll say is looking at this market today I thought was really interesting, we haven’t seen the Nasdaq outperform the S&P in a very long time, over a sustained period yesterday. That was the first thing on Tuesday that started to rip it all those banged up sort of names or whatever. We’re really squeezy. And I’m looking at the market today and I just mentioned it’s the MAGA complex, it’s a couple of Internet stocks, and then it really is semis. And semis have really underperformed to the downside, thought to be very cyclical, thought to be some issues as it relates to supply chains, thought to be maybe some inventory problems. There’s a whole host of things going on there. That’s really all that’s going on in the market. I still see the banks negative. I still see the homebuilders negative. I see some of this fintech stuff squeezing. I don’t see that to be a quality rally whatsoever. So to me, I don’t think the stock market is poised for a sharp rally by any means. And I do think if there’s any meaningful disappointments or if you do have JPMorgan, Jamie Dimon give a really negative outlook for this current quarter. And if you have a guy like Moynihan over there, Bank America, remember he clapped back at Jamie about his economic hurricane. If they give a negative outlook, I think that’s the thing that sent at least the S&P 500 through new lows. [00:28:45][89.2]
Danny Moses: [00:28:45] You know, I think people need to watch Europe specifically, Germany specifically. They’re most impacted by what’s going on with Russia, Ukraine. They’re rationing gas already. They’re bailing out utilities already. It’s already happening. I know we’re in the summer months here. No one’s thinking about what stockpiles might look like in the winter. But listen, Germany’s, I think, the fifth largest industrialized country in the world or something like that. I think it’s fifth and it has a huge impact on us. They buy from us, we sell to them, has a big impact. So if those companies and those industries can’t perform because literally they can’t get the power that they need to produce, whatever, that’s a big issue. So a lot of the multinationals, I don’t think they’re going to be talking about it on this quarter, but it’s something to really pay attention to. And I think we’re so focused here in the U.S., which we should be. But just you got to think about what impact that might have. And again, it lends itself to euro continue to weaken against the dollar, which has positive benefits, but for the most part has negative benefits for capital markets. [00:29:36][50.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:29:37] All right. So, Danny, let me ask you this. So is there a scenario at some point, maybe it’s late summer, early fall, let’s say some of these commodities that have come in hard. If they stayed out and let’s say some of the economic data that was really hot on the jobs front on the CPI is in as we start seeing the inflationary data really kind of moderate here and we don’t see unemployment tick up meaningfully and then rates could kind of chill a little bit. And the Fed has this period where they could say, hey, listen, not mission accomplished. There’s no banners up on aircraft carriers or anything like that. But they can say, listen, we think we have some sort of price stability at this point after a period of a lot of poor visibility and a lot of erratic geopolitical sort of stuff. Is there a scenario, though, where you would get more constructive on the stock market? [00:30:22][44.3]
Danny Moses: [00:30:22] I’m constructive all the time, but then that’s not going to happen any time soon. I think that’s 3 to 4 months away at a minimum, something like that playing out. And I see a situation where if things really do start to roll over on energy and materials, that there’s a reason for it and that’s really demand. And that will not coincide with an S&P that still trades, I think, at a hefty premium on a PE basis. And until we get through the second quarter and reevaluate until we get through Jackson Hole and late August and whatever, I think that’s a conversation, Dan, to have after Labor Day as we kind of move into the fall. But right now, I still think we’re going have massive volatility and swings. And just saying what you said before in round this out is that identify the quality companies that you think you want to own, that you like what they do and start to chip away at them because whether you’re off by a month or a quarter or even two quarters, doesn’t matter if you have a 3 to 5 year time horizon. [00:31:07][44.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:31:07] And I agree with that. I mean, listen, I haven’t changed my tune whatsoever. I do not think this stock market bottoms until the s&p 500 roundtrips its entire move back to its pre-pandemic highs. That was February 2020. It was just around three. 400 or so. But I do think that there stocks the lesson that you learned and that I learned as traders or as investors in the wake of the financial crisis or in the wake of the dot.com bust, is that certain stocks will start to show good relative strength to the S&P 500. You just use that example. Gold relative to this whatever risk asset you want to do, that’s how you’re going to ultimately pick some of these winners in the first cycle of the next bull run. So to me, you can still bet on a broad market going lower, but you can start picking out some of the names you like. All right. Well, I think we covered a lot of ground here. Danny Moses. [00:31:53][45.8]
Danny Moses: [00:31:54] You better face time from the show. [00:31:56][1.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:31:56] I will do. I missed the Pearl Jam two nights in Hyde Park on Friday and Saturday Pixies opening Friday night. It’s going to be pretty sweet. And I’ll be back in the saddle ready to go next week. [00:32:07][10.6]
Danny Moses: [00:32:07] Well, guys, stick around. And while a guy wasn’t here for this segment, guy and I had the pleasure of interviewing Dan Nathan. I did a little John Facenda emanated from Syracuse, New York, made his way to New Jersey and Pennsylvania. But yeah, we interview Dan, got down to some nitty gritty, so stick around for that. I think you’ll enjoy it. [00:32:25][17.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:32:51] CME AD. IConnections Ad. Masterworks Ad [00:33:41][49.6]
Guy Adami: [00:34:38] Welcome back to on the tape now Danny Moses. The question I get often and a question that you asked me is, do you guys and gals all get along on that fast money show that you do? And typically I say, yes, we do. You can’t fake chemistry and television magnifies everything. And you’ll be like, Yeah, well, I don’t know. But I will tell you, I think it was and Dan Nathan, correct me if I’m wrong, 13 or so years ago when we first met on the set of Fast Money and you have an anecdotal story that you tell, that’s what they call revisionist history. But I will tell you, Danny, before we get into this interview with Dan Nathan, that I consider Dan an extraordinarily dear friend. And although he thinks we had a rocky first date, as it were, it’s been nothing but roses ever since. [00:35:30][51.8]
Danny Moses: [00:35:31] I love watching the two of you interact. You know who John Facenda was? [00:35:34][2.7]
Guy Adami: [00:35:34] Of course, John Facenda is the voice of the NFL. Drew and John Facenda, voice force. Danny. [00:35:39][4.7]
Danny Moses: [00:35:40] Born out of Syracuse, New York, led the Green Bay Packers to four touchdowns. But that’s the Bart Starr. There’s John Facenda, the river. [00:35:46][6.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:35:47] A man was born to trade options on CNBC. [00:35:49][2.3]
Danny Moses: [00:35:50] I think of John Facenda. Get your story out of Syracuse, New York. Blue collar makes his way onto the Syracuse lacrosse team. For some reason, that’s not good enough. We’ll get into why you transferred to Penn. We’ll go there. But I want to say so you interact. I know you have a twin brother, but you and I are like brothers. You banter a little bit back and forth, mutual respect, and it comes out and it’s genuine. And that’s why everything that you’re doing on air, off air on the podcast, I think is truly genuine because you can be yourself around. [00:36:13][23.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:13] Guy Totally amazing guy. The story that you’re talking about it was I started doing Options Action in April of 2009 on CNBC at the time, the show literally aired at 11 p.m. on Friday nights. How many people you think were tuning in at CNBC? [00:36:25][11.5]
Guy Adami: [00:36:26] Wait a second. Hold on. Say that again a little slower. The show aired at 11 p.m. on Friday. [00:36:31][4.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:31] 11 p.m. on Friday nights. And so Mary Duffy at CNBC said, hey, listen, Dan, we’d really like to get you some more exposure on the network of people who might watch this show. It’s just so like viewers could recognize you if they happen to like tune in at 11:00. So she’s like, I’d love for you to go on fast money. Melissa Lee was the host of Options Action. She also had just become the host of Fast Money. I came on the end of the desk. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was like May 9th, 2009. I was previewing a Matt’s earnings. I walk on during a commercial break that one of you looks up and says hi to me. Melissa Lee said, Hey, Dan, as she would. And I walked off the set and I said to Mary, I will never do that show ever again. Those guys are aholes. [00:37:12][40.4]
Guy Adami: [00:37:13] That’s fair and in a vacuum. You’re probably right because around that time we had a lot of people that would come and go off the show. I don’t think we were being Johnsons. I just think we were sort of immersed in our work and we really sort of discounted a lot of the people they paraded through. Obviously, though, Dan, you acquitted yourself extraordinarily well, so much so that became a staple on that great options action show for years. And obviously you’re an integral part of fast money. I don’t say that in jest. It’s absolutely true. The voice you bring to the network is essential, especially now. More so, I think, than ever. [00:37:50][36.7]
Danny Moses: [00:37:50] Well, to be fair, the world was in the market. It’s 666 on the S&P on March 9th, 29. So literally in the midst of the Great Recession or the great the global financial crisis, you come on board. [00:38:01][11.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:38:02] Well, it’s funny, you know, I had been watching you guys on Fast Money for, what, a year or two prior. And it was a very unique show because it did speak to people like us. Right. Danny, who grew up on trading desks and understood there’s only a sliver of the market that actually stares at FactSet and Bloomberg machines all day long. Tick for tick. And that’s what Fast Money really spoke to and is one of the reasons why that sort of format was something that I was interested in trying to do. And I will say that as I got to know you guys, you know how they got me back. John Malloy, who is the producer, he knew I was a big fan of the Grateful Dead and we were having Bob Weir on one night and he said, listen, I know you don’t like to do the show. I know you haven’t done it in a while. But we have Bob Weir on tonight. Would you come on now? Was like you’d have to ask me twice and I was on an ever since then I started popping in and then I became a regular kind of shortly after often sitting next to Guy Adami. [00:38:51][48.3]
Guy Adami: [00:38:51] Which is always fun and for a long time prior to COVID, the shtick was If you were sitting to my right as you would get up to walk to the smart board or to whatever the hell they call that thing, the Telestrator. You would walk past me and pat me on the back. So I took the opportunity to use that. Pat is sort of a Rudy Giuliani thing and sort of fall forward onto the desk. And people would be like, Oh my God, he’s being so mean to you. Look at the way he whacks you on the back to the point where a couple of times I just really fell off my chair. I was a great shtick at the time, but obviously the world’s changed a bit since. [00:39:26][35.2]
Danny Moses: [00:39:27] I’ll be honest, really, the only show I ever caught was probably that because I mean, I’m quoted in the book The Big Short, that I stayed away from CNBC during 28 and seven because I’m not even bullish just rose colored rose me. Literally it would confuse me to the point where I’m like, Alright, I get it. But at least with fast money, the market was always closed. Talk about what had happened in the day, what moved, why and who. You guys do a great job of explaining and a series on that. I’m not just saying that, so no. [00:39:49][21.8]
Guy Adami: [00:39:49] And I appreciate that. We do try, but I’ll say this, we’re not looking to bury the lead here either. We want to get to know Dan a little bit better. And it’s a fascinating family. I’ve been fortunate enough, Dan, and you have as well to get to know Dan’s immediate family, obviously his wife and two beautiful daughters, as well as his family growing up as mom, dad, brother, sisters, the whole rig. Dan will tell you if I’m not speaking out of turn, that his mom’s favorite on both fast money and options. Action is one guy, Tommy, but you don’t have to really necessarily illustrate that. But talk to us about your growing up then. [00:40:21][31.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:40:22] I grew up in a very unique family. I am one of two sets of twins. I have a twin brother. He and I both turned 50 this year. My sisters are just a tad older than us, so I have two twin sisters. [00:40:31][9.5]
Danny Moses: [00:40:32] Identical or fraternal? [00:40:32][0.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:40:33] Fraternal. My parents are kind of like the rock of our lives. They were just steady as you could be and always teaching us things the right way. Grew up in Syracuse, New York. They had both gone to Syracuse. My parents met there. My dad served in the Army in the Army Reserves for many years. And I think his background in the military and his thought about service is something that I think instilled a certain level. I think of character in us about how to do things like Danny, you just mentioned Blue Collar. We didn’t grow up in a blue collar environment, but that sort of work ethic, I think, is very prevalent in places like upstate New York, out of big cities like New York, not saying people don’t work hard here, but they just do things differently there. And to get out of places like that, you actually have to start thinking beyond what the here and now is. [00:41:16][42.8]
Danny Moses: [00:41:16] So go to high school there. You enrolled in Syracuse, correct? Yeah. Did your brother go to Syracuse? [00:41:20][3.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:41:20] Was my twin brother Andy went to Hobart. We both played lacrosse in high school. Both of us were, you know, we’re decent enough. True lax brother. Well, listen, you know, my dad played at Syracuse in the early sixties. And to me, Syracuse, Lacrosse, Syracuse sports in general was everything. [00:41:32][12.1]
Guy Adami: [00:41:33] Syracuse lacrosse is equivalent to University of Alabama football back then. Still to a certain extent today, obviously, some other schools have come to the forefront. But back then, those sixties, seventies, eighties lacrosse programs at Syracuse, that was it. People will say the best lacrosse player ever was Jim Brown, who obviously went to Syracuse. So playing lacrosse at Syracuse University is nothing to be trifled with. So clearly you could play the game. [00:42:00][27.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:42:01] I was fine. I basically walked on that team and I’ll just say, this is in 1983. We moved from New Jersey to Syracuse. My dad bought my brother and I these sticks when he was coming back to New Jersey on one of his work trips before we officially moved up there. And he brought us sticks and we had never played we had seen Syracuse one in 1983. Your friend Fred Opie was on that team guy that you went to high school with. It was a huge upset of John Hopkins and Andy and I just became obsessed with the sport. And then to your point about Syracuse in the eighties, Gary and Paul Gait went there and they just changed the game. And Andy and I were in high school in the mid to late eighties and we just were like, That was it. Andy went to Hobart, I went to Syracuse. I had the opportunity to walk on that team. I literally was one of the last guys of 48 on that team. In my freshman year we were down at the University of Pennsylvania playing in the national championship. We had beaten Johns Hopkins in the semis and our guys thought that was it. We were done because we were playing Princeton, and Princeton was there on a lark and they beat us in double overtime. That weekend. I made up my mind being on Penn’s campus that I was going to transfer to Penn, and I did that. And both of those decisions really changed my life because the exposure and being able to play on that team, that team that I started with as a freshman, they went to national championships. [00:43:07][66.7]
Danny Moses: [00:43:08] You get playing time on that team. [00:43:09][0.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:43:09] I played a couple of times when they were up by like 15 goals. [00:43:11][1.9]
Danny Moses: [00:43:11] So it was that part of the disgruntled little disgruntled it all or. [00:43:14][2.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:43:14] No, no, no. I mean, listen, I was happy to be on that. [00:43:16][2.4]
Danny Moses: [00:43:16] Team and then Penn. [00:43:17][0.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:43:17] Did not have an illustrious lacrosse career. It’s okay. [00:43:19][1.7]
Danny Moses: [00:43:19] But it’s amazing. You can even walk on those teams. [00:43:21][1.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:43:21] Yeah, well, no. I mean, I was going to walk out of Penn, but I should have had a much better career than I did. And I actually had two summers that were really formative. This is the intersection of all those things that you’re not sure as a young person what might end up turning to something. I was the last guy, like I said, of that Syracuse lacrosse team. But because they had this DNA from the gates who were from Canada and played blocks across, they changed the game. There was a couple of kids each year from Syracuse who went up to Ontario and played junior lacrosse. I was not clearly one that would have been chosen to do that, but the best player on the team was going up there and somebody else backed out and he called me up and he said, Hey, do you want to come up here live with his family, work at their bond brokerage firm, and play on this lacrosse team? And I was like, Yeah. And I went up there and this family, the McGee’s amazing family, they’re actually from Manhasset, where Jim Brown played the cross before he went to Syracuse. I live with them an amazing opportunity, but that was my first exposure to financial markets. I was working for two summers while playing lacrosse at a bond market for and that’s how I really got the bug about it. [00:44:16][55.2]
Danny Moses: [00:44:16] You have a great network because I hear you talk to your friends. Oh, that’s a guy went to Penn with Penn. Penn, Penn. And there’s some Syracuse thing in there, but it is mostly Penn. So you are able to find your way. So let’s fast forward here. Yeah. After that, obviously you give it a shot. You had some success on the buy side, which I always think it’s key for people that have Wall Street experience to have sell side by side a little bit of everything so you can have the full. So walk us through kind of iteration. [00:44:39][22.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:44:39] Well, here’s the thing. It’s about where you go and the people you meet. I would not have gotten the job at S.A.C. Capital in 1997 if I hadn’t gone to University of Pennsylvania. Steve Cohen was only hiring guys out of school, and they were guys who went to University of Pennsylvania, his alma mater, and they weren’t hiring many. And so a guy who had played lacrosse with a year ahead of me got a job right out of school there. I went to Dallas actually to do a job litigation consulting. I met my wife down there. So all things were great. After a year I came back up and I started working at SAC. So again, like, this is how kind of your life sort of weaves around in the guy who actually got me that job had played lacrosse with the A also. So I started out in the business. I literally started in January of 1997 at S.A.C.. Danny, you were in the business guy. You were in the business. What was happening to the markets then? They were just inflating and the weird pockets of the market were inflating. So that’s why when we see what’s happened to crypto, what’s happened in some of these high valuation but unprofitable parts of tech, we’ve seen this before and we know how it ends. And that’s one of the reasons why we get animated about this stuff on the podcast, on fast money, on any of this sort of stuff. We’ve seen this stuff. [00:45:44][64.4]
Danny Moses: [00:45:44] Before because it’s rates will go into that later, but it’s rates because they were raising rates, it happened again. Sub Prime Part one, 1998. [00:45:50][5.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:45:50] People forget, oh man, from 1995 I was on okay computer. I had Jeff Richards on with me a couple of weeks ago and I read the returns just for the S&P, not for the NASDAQ. The S&P from 95 to 99 average like 35% a year. Think about how insane that is. [00:46:07][16.4]
Danny Moses: [00:46:07] Yeah, I covered tech. I was institutional equity sales at Oppenheimer and Covered SAC. I don’t think I dealt with you directly, but we did the tech pod. We buy them. [00:46:13][6.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:46:14] Lunch. I was too lowly. I think that’s already the theme of this podcast. I was the last guy on the bench on all of these plays. [00:46:19][5.6]
Danny Moses: [00:46:20] Have been on some good benches. [00:46:20][0.7]
Guy Adami: [00:46:21] I think the three of us collectively, Dan and I specifically, because we’re on TV every night, you’re always negative, you’re always this, you’re always that. A lot of it has to do with your formative years and what was going on. I mean, as Dan will mention, you know, I started in the late 1920s. I think we all understand what happened subsequent to that. But it really made my bones. I started in earnest, obviously, in 1986 and was a year or so later that the world started crumbling around in the stock market. So that’s very fresh with me all the time. And you just mentioned when you started as well. So a lot of this has to do with what you were brought up with in the business, without question, for better or for worse, then. [00:46:57][36.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:46:58] It’s interesting to me to see all the crypto pros and what they’re going through in other different cycles, right? The guys that were into gold or into real estate flipping homes, that was us in the late nineties. I’m just telling you, all these hedge fund guys, all these guys who worked at banks, everyone thought they could do no wrong and that this was going to go forever. And so to me, I’m actually it’s funny guy you just mentioned labeled as the bear the heel on the show or whatever. And I’ll tell you where that comes from in the second. But I’m a very optimistic person in life. I just think when it comes to financial markets and I think this is a lot of your DNA, too, Danny, we know what can go wrong. We’ve been around the block. We know that a lot of it’s a bit of a fugazi. And so to me, to point it out publicly, I don’t think that you should be labeled anything. If anything, you’re being more of a realist. [00:47:40][42.4]
Danny Moses: [00:47:40] People can choose not to listen. They can ignore it or not want to hear it. But you’re just speaking from experience. [00:47:45][4.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:47:45] Yeah, but Guy says this all the time. Think about when you started doing Fast Money Guy in 2007, things were still pretty good. The stock market topped out in November of 2007. It was still a good ride and there were bits and parts of 2008 where even when Bear Stearns went under in March of 28, people thought, Oh, that’s not going to derail this bull market or whatever. And the fact that you point out what could go wrong, guy, what was you’re saying that you were grown up in the business and what? [00:48:09][23.6]
Guy Adami: [00:48:09] Yeah. So I mean, I grew up in what can go wrong, will go wrong and hope for the best but prepare for the worst. And that was sort of my Wall Street DNA back in the day. And you try to bring forth that on television. What you learn very quickly is and then you can speak to this. And Danny, obviously you can as well. But people say, tell me the truth. I want to hear the truth. And I think they believe that. But the reality is, I think people want to hear what helps them sleep well at night, wake up in the morning, feeling optimistic. So I think a lot of times we point out things that people just don’t want to hear. And what I’ve learned is when you say things like that, you can really upset the apple cart a bit. [00:48:45][36.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:48:45] Dan Well, here’s the deal. I think it’s kind of serendipity that the three of us now are what are we a year and a half and doing a podcast together? Guy You and I did not know Danny. I mean, I knew about you from the book and I knew about you from the movie, and we had friends in common over the years. But the fact that the three of us are here together, I think there’s a common thread here, is that we really don’t give a shit what someone else thinks about our opinions and we’re calling it like we’re seeing it too. And I think for years and years, I guess until Twitter really started and people could tweet at us during a show or tweet at us after a podcast or respond to a tweet or whatever. You probably know what some of the criticisms were about your commentary in general. And so for me, I guess in life in general, I just never really give a shit what other people think. [00:49:28][42.4]
Guy Adami: [00:49:28] No, and nor should you, by the way. And I think there’s something there’s an entrepreneurial spirit about you as well. I don’t know if that was sort of galvanized that SAC or not. My sense is you probably. Grew up that way. But you’ve created some amazing businesses. I mean, prior to risk reversal media, what you did with risk reversal was pretty impressive in a very short period of time. Can you speak to that? [00:49:48][19.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:49:49] So one of the things for me, and I think it goes back to how I came up in Wall Street. Most of the people in and around me, they had a salary, they had benefits, they had jobs that they just couldn’t walk in unless it was like a real crisis where they could lose their job. The next day they kind of knew what the bands of their income would be and they could plan out the trajectory of their careers. So I started on a trading desk where the guys were wearing ripped jeans and t shirts, and it was not particularly fancy by any means. We were actually looked down upon by many of our friends that worked at other institutions, whether it be banks or mutual funds or that sort of thing. And so the thing there was eat what you kill. And so the more hustle you have, the better you are at what you do, the more opportunity to get, and ultimately, maybe the more income that you could make. Right. And so for me, I had years on the buy side where I had really good years and I had really bad years and a really bad year. Like, you don’t make any money, there’s nothing coming in, right? So for me, I always said to myself, this is the way it’s going to be. There’s going to be feast or famine and there’s no slow and steady. Now, some of my friends who kind of did the slow and steady thing are doing really well multiple decades into it. But you have to be a political animal to make it and a big financial services institution over a long period of time and be our age and still have a job that matters. And so I guess I just made a decision a while ago. I was at two years at Merrill Lynch in 2007 and 2008. And I remember what it was like in 2008. And I looked around me at all of these people who are hardworking, honest people. They worked on the equity derivatives desk. They traded a lot of prop. We were really profitable, but they literally their livelihoods, their savings were all going to go the way of the dodo. And a lot of people were scratching their heads like, wait, if bear went down and then Lehman goes down and then Merrill goes down, when the dust settles, there’s not going to be enough seats for me. So what the hell have I been doing for the last 20 years? So that was actually a really informative thing for me and I basically said, You know what? From here on out, I’m only betting on me and I’m only betting on me with people that I think share the same characteristics. Guy You and I started talking in 2014 about something called the Ticker District, about literally setting up the framework for what we have now with risk reversal media and having the sorts of people like Danny. And we have so many awesome people contributing with us like Carter, you know, and the list goes on, lives and everything like that, and it’s just been really fun. So to me it’s all of the entrepreneurial stuff is really born out of the fact that I started in the business as you could go away at any moment, you could make no money here, and the whole business is always changing before your feet. If you’re willing to recognize that, you got to take control your own path a little bit. [00:52:17][148.5]
Guy Adami: [00:52:18] There are a lot of young people. Listen to this. Dan, you said something. And when I speak at groups, I say this all the time. If you don’t believe in yourself, nobody else will. And every once in a while you’re going to get an opportunity to make a bet on yourself. And you have to take advantage of that. I mean, I’ll give you right now, it’s happening right before our very eyes in the form of Aaron Judge with the Yankees. This is not a Yankee thing. But my point is, it turned down a lot of money that the Yankees offered him and he bet on himself. And right now, that’s one of the greatest bets in history. But you did the same thing. And I think it’s important for people to hear that you can do that and you can be successful doing that. [00:52:55][37.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:52:56] Yeah, well, one thing I will tell you this, as an adult, it would not have been able to do this. My wife, Sarah, who you guys both know, I mean, she has put up with it all. She supported it all. And if you don’t have a life partner who’s going to allow you to do that sort of stuff, I think it’s really hard. My parents have obviously been very supportive. My whole family, they’re all awesome, my brothers and sisters and everything that they do. And we’ve all done stuff together as far as advancing each other’s careers and stuff like that. So I think the support system, I know both of you guys have amazing wives and families and you can’t take these sorts of risks, you can’t have these sorts of opinions and be out there the way we are. If you don’t have a tremendous support network. [00:53:32][35.9]
Danny Moses: [00:53:32] I’m still getting over that. You were just compared to Aaron Judge, but. [00:53:35][2.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:53:36] They. [00:53:36][0.0]
Danny Moses: [00:53:36] Maybe it’s the looks, it’s the athletic ability. It’s all that stuff. SHOULDERS No, but the one thing I think the three of us shared in this, if I resonate with you, is that we all have passion for the markets. But at the same time, the way Wall Street works doesn’t matter what seat you’re in. You try to make money, obviously, because you’re not. That’s a measure of success, but it’s somewhat of an empty feeling. And when you stop making money or whatever you’re doing, you realize you can’t grow as a person. Forget about I’m not trying to rank the things in general, and I realize how people view Wall Street Journal, but you care about your job, you care about. So for me, it was always and I think this is for you, you want to grow as a person. So if that means challenging yourself to something new that you did with risk averse, which you should go into, because I don’t think you answered that exactly about doing that. That’s how I view you and that’s how I am. I think that’s how a guy is. You just move on the next you want to challenge yourself continuously. So for everyone out there, what a risk reversal is and why don’t you start that? So it has an option angle too. [00:54:24][47.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:54:24] I think it’s really interesting for the three of us all to think about this is like I don’t think any one of us could be sitting on a trading desk in doing that Monday through Friday and doing all weekend long reading the Barron’s and the research reports and. And back in on Monday and doing it. I don’t know about you guys. I just couldn’t be doing that anymore. And I loved doing that when I started doing that in the late nineties and I would have done it for a while. But it is a young person’s game and I think about we went from a very qualitative investment environment when we started to a very quantitative one now. And I think a lot of the fun, the things that we found most interesting about it don’t really exist. And so when I started thinking about risk reversal as a brand, I started doing Options Action in 2009, like I said. And for a viewer to get in contact with you, they literally had to send an email to some inbox that CNBC that maybe got forwarded to you. And it wasn’t really until Twitter when we were on those shows and people could tweet at us. And then back then, like I just said, now, I don’t really give a shit what people say, but you’re interested in what people say and you want to make sure you’re on the right track. So until I started getting lots of questions from retail investors, that’s what really piqued my interest. That’s where I thought where I could take my first ten or 15 years in the business and having some great training and great experiences and some success and some failure and plenty of failure. How can we help other people? How can we demystify some of this stuff and options? Was a great way to do it because it was a product that was exploding. There was lots of financial services companies that were really interested in backing content on that. CNBC Max Meyers, dear friend of mine, who’s the guy who gave me the opportunity initially at CNBC when I first met him in 2008 to come on that show. I think he changed the game with options, the way that we talk about him, not from the think chasing activity. You guys know, I think that’s a big Fugazi. It really is about how can this tool be used by everyday investors who don’t have the institutional tools or knowledge that the big boys and girls have in the game? How can they use them to help add yield to their portfolios? Risk manager perform those levers? That was the game changer for me and I basically said I think there’s a path forward speaking to retail with a certain voice. And again, I think that’s what we’re doing here. So risk reversal media, let’s flash forward. I started doing risk reversal in late 2010, early 2011 as a way to be transparent and document the things that I was going on CNBC and saying four options, action and fast money and people had a way in which to communicate with me and see exactly what I was saying and what I was doing and real time, let’s call it cheat sheet or whatever of what I was doing. Riskreversal Media came about because it was really before the pandemic. I and I started talking and I know, Guy, you had a lots of different conversations with a lot of people about content that you do. You speak a lot. I was like, well, listen, now all of a sudden, it seems like the convergence of all these media models and markets really have become sport. This was a big thing. And I know that, Danny, you’re really into handicapping, really into sports betting and all that sort of think about the convergence of all of these sorts of things as markets and trading becomes sport. And I think the crypto craze in 17 really made that very clear. And so we’re like, how can we make this fun, digestible, demystify these things and really create community? And that’s what I think we came up with as a way to go direct to consumer and do this. CNBC is amazingly important to us. It’s an amazing brand guide. You and I have had so much fun doing that. We’ve gotten to meet so many amazing people like Danny. We would not have met you probably in this capacity if you hadn’t come on our show. So to me, that’s where social media was born out of. And right now, I mean, in general, if you think about the properties we have, this is the most important one to the three of us here. We do this every week. We have a bunch of bonus episodes to cover different topics that are less ephemeral here. We’ve also been so fortunate to attract some amazing financial services brands to support us like CME Group, like Current, like recently I connections. Like so far, like FactSet has been an amazing partner to us and the list goes on and on. And I just think there’s a way, there’s parallel paths they’re going to continue with traditional media models, and people like us will continue to participate those. But then there’s going to be these other ones that I think are going to kind of be where the puck is going and who knows how that’s going to end up. But I think to continue to try them out makes a lot of sense and I couldn’t think of a better group to do it with than you guys know. [00:58:30][245.3]
Guy Adami: [00:58:30] Listen, I feel the same way and not to give away your address, but you do live in New York City. You have two now teenage daughters. But can you speak to and everybody’s COVID experience was different. I’m not underestimating or trying to be glib here, but I think to a large extent, the period of time that people spent in lockdown and stuff really opened up a lot of opportunities in terms of what we’re doing now. But speak to how difficult it must have been for you with daughters that age in New York City, which at a large extent became sort of the epicenter of a lot of things over the last couple of years. [00:59:01][31.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:59:02] Obviously, it was the epicenter, I think in the spring of 2020. A lot of people felt like all of the negative headlines in a lot of the images that we had were just of New York hospitals being overrun and people, you know, who were outside of New York was like they thought it was like some sort of post-apocalyptic sort of thing. And I think New York in general dealt with it very well. And I think New York has also been a sign of really one of the first major cities that I know of in America that closed down meaningfully, that reopened. And it’s so vibrant. And Danny, you’ve been coming in and Scott, you’ve been coming in a lot. You guys live outside the city. So in many ways, I think New Yorkers should. Be very proud about how the city made it through it as far as me on a personal front. I mean, my wife and my kids were amazing. Everybody understanding the severity. We had a group meeting, a family meeting. We haven’t had too many of them, but it was probably the day that the NBA shut down. So it was March 10th, 2020. And I said very specifically to all of them and I just wanted them to really know this is that this is serious. And whatever you think you’re reading on social media from some snarky this or that or whatever like this is not one week is not two weeks. And here’s the most important point. This is not happening to you. This has happened to us. And I think that sort of mentality, I think they understood that really quickly. And I think a lot of people showed their better sides during that period. I think we’re all a bit exhausted by all of it, but I think creatively, when you think it would take to the next level, I feel for the kids because kids of all demographics, socio economic situations or whatever, everybody suffered. A lot of people suffered far less than the others. And my kids are going to be just fine. I think, though, creatively, for people like us who are like all of a sudden we thought these constructs that existed for our business that were so formative to our earlier careers, they all came crumbling down. You see that in all different sorts of industries. So for us, I think it really kind of opened our eyes to the sort of potential that we have to go out there and do a bunch of stuff on our own that just, you know, and guy, you and I’ve talked about this a lot. I think it’s really complimentary to everything else that we have been doing in traditional media. I think it all works well together. And if anything, I think some of these new media formats that a lot of people experimented with over the last couple of years, they actually may be a lifeline to traditional media in a way. So I think media organizations that realize that they have to tap new audiences and to tap new audiences and to get them involved and engaged, they’re going to have to use new mediums in which to do it for sure. [01:01:22][140.1]
Danny Moses: [01:01:23] So let’s fast forward. So you have a big birthday coming up? I think so. I zero. I do see I find your correct age. Yep. September 20th. Happy almost birthday by the way. [01:01:31][8.1]
Dan Nathan: [01:01:31] Guide docs me and you’re throwing out my. Oh, my God. Does anyone? [01:01:35][3.5]
Danny Moses: [01:01:35] It’s online. You can see. [01:01:36][0.8]
Guy Adami: [01:01:36] It. What is it? I don’t know what that means. What is Doc mean? I saw that on, like, fox news. Somebody was getting Doc Docs. [01:01:42][6.1]
Dan Nathan: [01:01:42] Yeah, it’s just all your personal info getting out there. [01:01:44][1.8]
Danny Moses: [01:01:45] So the next ten years here, obviously you’re going to grow this into a massive empire. But no, seriously, the next ten years, you know, you girls are going to be in college, your next stage, your life here. How do you see this thing playing out in the next ten years? [01:01:54][9.8]
Dan Nathan: [01:01:55] I got to tell you, we’re doing this today, guy. And I just did the market call before you and I are sitting here doing this. I’m going over to do fast money. I’m just enjoying it. You guys are enjoying it literally. It’s given another life, I think, to the way in which we think about markets and we think about where things are going. And I will tell you this, I think one of the fascinating things Guy says this all the time that you get sick of hearing your own voice, right guy? I mean, I actually enjoy it and it’s really energizing when we’re enjoying it. And I think to figure out how to keep it fun, to keep it interesting, to keep helping people. And again, we’re not doing God’s work here by any means, and I don’t think any of us have ever claimed to do that. But one of the things I realized, having this connection with the retail audience through CNBC over the years is that a lot of people take this really seriously. You know, like some of these people are like political junkies or they’re sports junkies or whatever market junkies guy, you meet them all the time. That was one of the things. It was totally fascinating that when we walk into the Nasdaq at Times Square and we walk out of there after the show pre-pandemic, there was always people waiting. Guy would always sit there and talk to them and they were like, They’re guys. It was like, If you met George Guy, maybe go up to him, get all geeked up. Some people feel that way about Guy Downey, so I just think that to me, as long as it remains fun, the people in which you can do it is be fun. And if you think that you’re kind of helping people, I think that’s kind of important to. [01:03:10][75.2]
Guy Adami: [01:03:10] Talk about that. I mean, I think that’s so important. You can have fun doing this. You can be light of heart, yet you can still be serious in terms of what you’re doing for the market. I think that’s a great point. What I think fast money did, at least I think, is we made all this accessible to people and fun for people. And I think that’s exactly what I know, what we’re trying to do with risk versus media, but I think that’s what you try to do as well. With the work that you do then. [01:03:36][26.0]
Dan Nathan: [01:03:37] Yeah, I’ll say this to also answer that question about the pandemic. I did not find doing the shows for my living room fun by any means. What I really enjoyed about it is being there with Mel and just the interaction with the group and just the chemistry that actually can only be created when people are in person. So do we have more fun in person? No doubt about it. I do think it’s important. I think we always really try to strike the right tone. We can be sitting on that desk some time and there can be an announcement about something that has nothing, a piece of news that has nothing to do with markets. And all of a sudden we have to talk about a terrorist attack or something like that, and we never want to talk about it through the lens of the financial markets. It seems kind of insensitive. A lot of our coverage guy in 2020 felt that way, right? There was no yucking it up when people were dying of this disease or people were hunkered at home or couldn’t go to work or that sort of thing. So that was kind of a unique period. Hopefully we don’t have to deal with that again. But listen, I feel like we’re about to enter a very dark period as it relates to being a pundit on anything. I used to catch a lot of heat. I had very strong political views during the last. Residency and I was not shy about vocalizing. But I’ll tell you, the reason I vocalize them was because the financial press, we’d walk in and you’d hear things like the Trump economy, the Trump is the Trump that the Trump market. And I’m like, Well, that’s a bunch of fucking bullshit as far as I’m concerned. So if you want to keep labeling all that stuff like that, then I’m going to do my best to debunk why I disagree with that. I worry, though, coming off of just what’s going on with the Supreme Court right now. We know that elections have consequences and we’re bearing that out right now. But it seems like the things that some people are very excited about, what’s gone on through a judicial process could really spin out of control into ways that legislatively how the executive branch handle. I think that all of this stuff is tied into the markets, it is tied into the economy. And so I’m worried that the next six months are going to be not particularly fun to be a pundit in any way, shape or form. [01:05:29][112.0]
Guy Adami: [01:05:30] What’s fun for you? And, you know, they have these diagrams with three circles and there’s always the intersection of circles, but most of the circle is on its own. And I think in a lot of ways that’s our musical tastes. I think you and Danny have somewhat on the same page. I’m probably a little bit different, but music plays such an important role in your life, without question. Danny, you as well speak to that, Dan, because it’s such a great way to get away from some of the market forces and some of the things we deal with on a day to day basis. [01:06:00][29.8]
Dan Nathan: [01:06:00] Yeah, I mean, we infuse it a lot of our content. All of us are quoting lyrics or song tunes. And for me it just goes back to being I want to say right before being a teen, my sisters, like I said, we’re a couple of years older than me. They always had really good interest in music. It started with classic rock. A lot of the stuff guy that you really grew up with, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones. I got into U2 really early in Grateful Dead was huge, huge for me. And then Springsteen. I lived in New Jersey when Born in the U.S.A. came out, I think it was in 1983 or four, and that was just an absolute phenomenon. And so for me, that music was such a big part of my life. But the first week on campus at Syracuse in 1991, Danny ten by Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Nevermind and then Blood Sex, Magic by Red Hot Chili Peppers, grunge rock. And I don’t think they called it grunge rock. It hit me like a ton of bricks because at that time it was like it changed music for the nineties for you. You grew up in Athens, Georgia, and I’m sure that whole scene was kind of mad. [01:07:00][59.6]
Danny Moses: [01:07:00] But R.E.M. so depressing so that, you know, B-52s were an overrated band. Widespread Panic was cool, but I was always into music, but probably more of the Southern rock stuff. But then when you said First year in college, that was my first year. Joshua Tree. So that’s why. [01:07:12][12.3]
Dan Nathan: [01:07:13] 1987, my freshman year in high school, I had a week and this changed my life. Actually, it was in September of 1987, in the same week in the Carrier Dome, David Gilmore, Pink Floyd played one night, I think it was a Saturday night. And then the following Friday, U2, Joshua Tree with Los Lobos opening for them. I remember Baba and I was like, live music. Was it for. [01:07:33][20.2]
Danny Moses: [01:07:33] Me? Ritchie Valens was guys favorite artists of all time. [01:07:35][2.3]
Dan Nathan: [01:07:36] But from there on out, to answer your question, live music was it? I travel for it. I still see all of those bands. [01:07:41][5.0]
Danny Moses: [01:07:41] You know, it’s the great equalizer music you can enjoy with anybody and everybody. And you’re just in a trance and everybody’s there for one reason and one reason only. And I feel like that’s why I like it. I think that’s why you like it, too. It’s a true passion. [01:07:51][9.4]
Guy Adami: [01:07:51] The other thing, Dan, by the way, that you love, I’m not getting off topic here because music is important. You’re a foodie. I mean, you’re definitely a foodie. You love going to restaurants, doing your thing. And I think it’s fantastic. But speak to like the quintessential Dan Nathan Thursday evening. [01:08:05][14.1]
Danny Moses: [01:08:06] He has his own radios. I mean, he has his own radios. Basically, it’s where he’s going. [01:08:09][2.9]
Dan Nathan: [01:08:09] You guys know what it is. You’ve been there. You love it. It’s for Charles primarily. It’s in the West Village. What’s really fun for me is that I really still love our business and I touch our business in lots of different ways. And you guys know this, Danny, your buddy is back there in Oppenheim in the late nineties. Used to go out with the hedge fund guys. [01:08:22][13.1]
Danny Moses: [01:08:22] Ever get the sack, dickheads? Yeah, exactly. [01:08:24][1.7]
Dan Nathan: [01:08:25] So what you guys call them. [01:08:26][0.8]
Danny Moses: [01:08:26] Yeah. Fucking yeah. Steaks to go for those guys. [01:08:28][2.1]
Dan Nathan: [01:08:28] It. Yeah, well I didn’t take anything home but the whole idea is like you get big group of guys together and that’s where stuff really happens, right? That’s where people start to gain trust of other people. And you see people who for who they are after a couple of cocktails, a little red wine, a big meal, who wants to do what afterwards. So I guess what I’m saying is, is that I’ve always appreciated that. I always love that part of the business. I kind of have a no assholes rule out now. Okay, so I have this dining table, I go every Thursday and I do it with people that I love and a lot of people that I do CNBC with that I’ve been in the business with for a long time, tons of personal friends, that sort of thing. And the real fun part about it is putting different groups of people together that I really love from different parts, and we do that quite often. [01:09:06][37.5]
Guy Adami: [01:09:06] So Danny, before you say anything, I’ll just say Dan said a no asshole rule, and I find it fascinating that I’ve never been at one of these dinners. So what does that say about me? [01:09:15][8.6]
Dan Nathan: [01:09:15] Well, first of all, I’ve got you have been invited probably like a hundred times. 50 times you say, yeah, I’ll do it. And then you kind of say the day of, you know, I can’t do it. [01:09:23][7.4]
Danny Moses: [01:09:23] Guy, if it makes you feel better. I’ve been invited eight times I’ve gone for so I’m batting pretty. It’s not Aaron Judge like I’m batting pretty good on that test right now. [01:09:31][7.7]
Guy Adami: [01:09:31] I think it’s fantastic. And that was such a huge part of my upbringing in Wall Street networking. Getting out, doing those things. But you get to a certain age that I’m at and it just makes it very difficult to do the things you’re doing. I admire you because I think your energy about this is for me, it’s really motivating and it’s helped me push the envelope a little in terms of what I’m doing. [01:09:52][21.0]
Danny Moses: [01:09:53] When I was at Oppenheimer, I was assigned to a man. Barry Correct. Great man. He was older at the time. I don’t know where he is now. I don’t want to think about it. But first thing he said to me goes, Danny. Yeah, he goes, This is a people business to people business. And that’s the whole thing you just described guy with people get to know them. What makes the stock trade a certain way is how people view that company, right? What is the owner of that company? How did the people pick up on the management? What it is? It’s a people business because it’s not just about the numbers. [01:10:15][22.6]
Dan Nathan: [01:10:16] What I was on the buy side, this was in the late nineties and through the mid arts in 2000. I had a really interesting experience because I was often the guy facing the banks kind of also helped be a relationship guy for the organization. I left this one firm in oh five, I think it was, and I was talking to different hedge funds. It was a guy who ends up he’s a billionaire now. He runs a huge platform. I remember meeting him after a couple of meetings and I remember him saying to me, I really like you. We wouldn’t have had three meetings if I didn’t really like you. But I keep hearing this thing is like I either keep meeting people who absolutely love you, and then I’ve met a handful of people, far fewer that can’t stand you, which I thought was really funny. And I heard this years ago, Max Meyers, who is again our producer on Options Action for Ever. And then he did fast money for a while. He said he called me up one day and he said, I got a funny story. I got some good news, I got some bad news. They said, What do you want to hear? First is like, give me the good news, you guys. The good news is that you’re the most hated guy. We just did a survey of all the panelists, you know, on fast money, you’re the most hated guy is the good news about that is like we need people that are really hated and really liked and what you don’t want to do is be in the middle guy. What do you think about that? [01:11:21][65.6]
Guy Adami: [01:11:22] Well, it’s interesting. First of all, I don’t believe that’s true. I don’t believe that for a second in terms of way people view you. But I do think what I’ve found in media, at least, you don’t want to find yourself in the middle. You don’t want to be one of those people that sort of morphs in with everybody else. You want to be not on one side or the other in terms of the political spectrum or anything like that. But you want to be memorable and whatever that means. And without question, Dan, your memorable. Well, I will tell you, and I’m not speaking for Danny, Dan is going to speak when I’m done here, but it’s been an absolute honor not only to get to know you, but to call you a close and dear friend, Dan Nathan And although we’ve done I think, some really great things over the years, I can say this with almost certainty. I think the best is yet to come, and large part that’s due to your intellect, your drive and your energy. So I thank you. [01:12:10][48.8]
Dan Nathan: [01:12:11] The stuff that we’ve been doing over the last few years now, it feels like literally the seeds were planted bit of a decade ago. And I say this to you, when we interviewed you for on the tape, I learned something from you a decade ago when you were training for that Iron Man, and we talked about that. I’m not going to get into that any more. And just your commitment to it and your commitment to the capital raise for leukemia society, I just knew right then and there this guy is the real deal here. And I always knew that if we were going to do something on our own, I’d want to do it with you. And obviously I’d say the same. You said this about Danny, I think when we interviewed him for this segment, meeting a guy like you with the experience that you have and the high profile nature of some of the situations that you’ve been involved with and having access to your mind. I mean, we’ve learned so much. I know, Guy, you feel the same way watching the markets play out since the first on the tape podcast, I think it was January 15th, 2021, and the themes that you brought with us, these are not things that guy and I, a bunch of them we’d be talking about. And the fact that they played out in front of our listeners eyes and ears I think is pretty fascinating. So I think we have a really special group. I’m really excited about what comes next here, and I do feel like we’ve kind of just scratched the surface. And I got to say, I mean, listen, I mentioned our sponsors. Our sponsors have been absolutely amazing and really given us this runway. And we’ve also had some supporters, guys like Rick Heitman at first, Mark and Joe Markazi had come in and then my friend Dan TURAN and Brian Sarver. We just have a lot of friends who’ve been really supportive of what our vision is for this business going forward. So again, thanks to you guys, because I could not do any of this on my own. And and of course, Amanda Diaz and we have Nick working with us and Stephen and we’ve just had like a great group, I got to say, Spencer, shout out to Spencer here. So we’re just getting started here. [01:13:54][103.5]
Danny Moses: [01:13:54] People will listen. It’s been great to get to know you as a person. Dan And also obviously I would call Business Associate. I don’t know what you call it, but to me this is just fun being in here with you. And so I look forward to the next ten years. That’s why I asked you. I thought you were going to say, we’re going in, we’re going to go together, we’re going to go in there, kill it. But no, seriously, it’s been a pleasure. [01:14:12][17.2]
Dan Nathan: [01:14:12] And so you know what, though? We’re part of the market, Danny. We’re like rocket ship emojis for start up companies. It’s not so cool anymore. [01:14:17][5.4]
Danny Moses: [01:14:18] So that’s true. That’s a good point. Slow and steady wins the race. [01:14:20][2.6]
Dan Nathan: [01:14:21] That’s what we’re going to do. Well, listen, guys, I appreciate the opportunity to kind of speak to our listeners in that capacity. And we have to thank the listeners. I mean, we wouldn’t be here if we didn’t have the people who are interested in, I guess, the chemistry that we have, the guests that we bring. We’ve had so many amazing guests. And really, I guess, giving us the opportunity to kind of impart some of the things that we’re seeing and calling it the way we see it on a daily basis. So thanks to all you guys. So I appreciate it. [01:14:44][23.5]
Guy Adami: [01:14:45] Thanks once again to CME Group for sponsoring this episode of On the Tape. If you liked what you heard, make sure you hit, follow and leave us a review. It helps people find our show. And we love hearing from you. And we also want to hear from you via email at on the tape, at risk reversal dot.com any time of the day. Follow and connect with us on Twitter at on the tape pod and we’ll see you next time. [01:15:10][24.1]
Dan Nathan: [01:15:11] On the tape is a risk reversal media production. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All opinions expressed by me and Nathan Guy, Danny, Danny Moses and any other participants are solely our opinions and should not be relied upon for specific investment decisions. [01:15:11][0.0]
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