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On this episode of “On The Tape,” Guy, Dan, and Danny discuss Guy’s controversial top band rankings (3:04), JPMorgan’s earnings report (5:47), the hardest macro tape Danny has seen (12:11), bond volatility (18:29), Wall Street strategists slashing S&P 500 price targets (20:44), and Tesla’s Elon Musk vs. Donald Trump (26:26). The co-hosts interview Jason Kander, New York Times bestselling author, about his new book Invisible Storm: A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD (38:58), and much more.
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Guy Adami: [00:00:00] CME Ad. [00:00:01][0.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:00:30] IConnections Ad. [00:00:31][0.3]
Guy Adami: [00:01:21] I’m telling you folks now, we are all geeked up. I’m looking at Danny Moses chomping at the bit. He’s chewing tobacco or something. Dan Nathan is here. He’s all geeked up. I can almost say without equivocation, this might be the most energetic on the tape you have ever heard in your life. I’m fired up. And, oh, by the way, later on, we’re going to have an interview with Jason Kander, author of Invisible Storm A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD. He was a New York Times best seller. He will be a two time New York Times best seller on the back of this book. I am ready to go here, folks. There’s a word that I use from time to time. The word is fruition. Things come to fruition. Dan Nathan And what’s amazing to me now, we’ve been doing this I think 18 months, is that correct? Correct. [00:02:12][51.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:02:12] Year and a half. [00:02:13][0.3]
Guy Adami: [00:02:13] The on the tape podcast with Danny Moses and Dan Nathan along with Guy Adam, it’s 18 months ish, right? And we tried to weave a narrative and it’s like some people like to knit and it takes people a long time to knit like a quilt or sweater. But when the sweaters done, you look at it like, Oh my God, here’s this beautiful sweater that I’ve spent 18 months knitting. Danny Moses has been knitting this sweater over time and over the last couple of days. What I’ve noticed all of these things, Danny, have come to fruition, your sweater that when you take off your shirt it appears that you’re wearing one is finished because we have Jp morgan and it’s interesting people sort of discounted Jamie Diamond a couple of months ago, a month and a half ago when he said there’s a hurricane coming. I don’t know if it’s a cat one, cat four, blah, blah, blah. But we saw JP morning earnings on Thursday and they’re now taking loan loss reserves. So what does he see? What does he see? What did he see? What does he see? And what do you see? [00:03:13][60.3]
Speaker 3: [00:03:13] Hold on a second. And I am fired up. And you people in Europe are going to need the sweater and quilt, whatever I’m knitting, because they’re not going to have any power this winter. But that’s okay. But Guy, you made a post the other day. We joke about music, we bring pop culture. [00:03:25][11.2]
Guy Adami: [00:03:25] And you want to start with that? [00:03:26][0.8]
Speaker 3: [00:03:26] Yeah, I want to start with this. You and your top 15. Okay, I get it. Zeppelin, I totally respect. Get it? I’m from Athens, Georgia, right? I respect R.E.M.. Okay. I like Simon and Garfunkel, but they’re poets, you know, beautiful stuff. Van Halen, one of the cheesiest bands in Stockholm generation. Hold on. I like that. But the stuff, the comments here, how is R.E.M. above the Beatles, first of all? And there’s obvious names missing. I guess you hate the city of Seattle because there is nothing on here that resembles any of the music. The D.A., I think you’re doing it just to hurt us. [00:03:58][32.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:03:58] That’s a bit of a train wreck. And let’s be clear, this was introduced during fast money on Wednesday afternoon, so it sounded like it was tapped out. [00:04:05][6.4]
Guy Adami: [00:04:05] I actually did this during a commercial break at Fast Money. I’m going to read the list and then you guys can open Led Zeppelin number one. I don’t think there’s any there’s no argument there. The WHO number two, you can argue, but the WHO belongs there, the brothers Allman. Number three, you’re going to say the two. [00:04:19][13.9]
Guy Adami: [00:04:20] No question. Bruce Springsteen at four. What’s the problem? No argument. Five Skinner. I love Leonard Skinner. They’re the soundtrack of my youth. You don’t want them in there. That’s fine. Number six, Stevie Ray Vaughan, probably the greatest guitar player of our lifetime. No question. Stone seven You got a problem with the Stones? I’m out of style. No, that’s fine. Clapton. I mean, Clapton is a genius. Yeah. Eight number nine, Dire Straits, a much maligned, probably not a band that people give enough attention to. Number nine, Eagles ten. Come on. Problem 11. Queen Freddie Mercury, the greatest frontman in the history of rock and roll. Number 12, the aforementioned R.E.M. from Athens, Georgia. In the 1980s, R.E.M. dominated the decade. Without question, you’re going to give me a hard time with Simon and Garfunkel. I’m going to say you never saw a Simon and Garfunkel live. Brilliant. Number 14, the aforementioned Van Halen, brilliant band, six albums that just kicked ass. And number 15, Beatles, tell me where I’m wrong. [00:05:18][57.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:05:18] You know, it’s obvious about, like, how much time we just spent on this is that there’s no giants, no rangers, no knicks. Like this is what we’re. [00:05:26][8.0]
Danny Moses: [00:05:26] I also wanted to avoid talking about the markets, and I needed a distraction to kind of before we go into this thing, which I’m happy to dive into here. But I wanted to get that out because I’ll put my 15 out next week. [00:05:36][9.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:05:36] And Amanda your going to put this in the show notes, guys, tweet from. [00:05:39][2.9]
Guy Adami: [00:05:39] No, but hold on. I’m just curious as to there’s obviously Pearl Jam is missing. Yes. Okay. [00:05:44][5.4]
Danny Moses: [00:05:45] U2 is missing Pink Floyd. [00:05:46][1.0]
Guy Adami: [00:05:46] Missing Pink Floyd is. Yes, Pink Floyd. By the way, if I went 25 to 50, they’re not. [00:05:51][5.3]
Danny Moses: [00:05:52] I saw show the wall at the wall. That’ll change your life. July 21st, 1990. All right. Anyway, let’s move on. By the way, that was in Germany. That’s one of the topics obviously we’re going to talk about today. Let’s lead with the maestro, Jamie Dimon. Should we do that? [00:06:04][12.0]
Guy Adami: [00:06:04] Yes. Why it started. I said Jamie Dimon, Jp morgan’s earnings. [00:06:08][3.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:06:08] Thanks for sticking with us people here. [00:06:09][1.0]
Danny Moses: [00:06:09] Yes, thank you. Front day, Jamie Dimon for once did. All right. So I don’t think any of it sounds like none of his salespeople are doing that anymore. They’re looking at the expense budget. But anyway. So nothing was unexpected, really. The one thing that was unexpected was canceling the buyback. By the way, the dividend is much larger than the buyback. It’s a token on the buyback. So and I’ll get into that in a minute. Credit losses, $1.1 billion in credit costs. [00:06:31][21.9]
Guy Adami: [00:06:31] There were reserves, by the way, this time last year. They were releasing $3 billion. A lot’s changed in a year. [00:06:37][5.7]
Danny Moses: [00:06:37] That’s exactly right. And then I think what really spooked people was now everyone was looking it up on Wikipedia. Whatever is is common equity tier one ratio. That’s ct1, right. That they call it that basically is Basel three. Again, don’t lose me, people, Dodd-Frank, just throw it all in the same. After the global financial crisis, the international world decided the banks need to have X amount of capital and they stress test everything. What he did today, that’s where he spent all of his venom was towards that 12 13%. Whatever the number he blamed not. But he also said, I will stop lending. Watch what I do. I will fire mortgage people. I will stop lending into the space, the people that need mortgages most. If you make me do this and I think it’s bullshit, I think he maybe even curse on it. So what he’s saying was there’s a risk weighted adjustment. People just throw in. They said, okay, you have X amount of billions of mortgages on your balance sheet. We’re going to stress test it to X, which makes you require X amount of capital on your balance sheet. So we are nitpicking here that he actually needs to reserve more capital than he probably should. And I think he’s right. I think they’re antiquated. And I think as we go through this recession, I think that the world will realize these banks are in much better shape, most of them the European banks whole nother podcast. But the U.S. banks are well capitalized and he’s crying out. There was nothing else in there was shocking at all. We knew they would take. I said last week if anyone doesn’t take credit reserves sell the company so the is acting fine it’s not necessary a. [00:07:54][76.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:07:54] Fine. [00:07:54][0.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:07:57] its down 4% it’s basically filled in that gap from late 2020. [00:07:59][2.4]
Danny Moses: [00:08:00] Find in this world that’s fine. [00:08:02][1.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:08:02] But you know what’s not fine is that you have an S&P that’s down 21% on the year. You have Jp morgan down 30%. Bank of America down 31%, down 40% from its all time highs, went up from its all time highs from its highs made late last year. So the banks are anything but fine, actually. [00:08:17][14.6]
Danny Moses: [00:08:17] So you’ve been telegraphing this for a long time. Yeah, and it happened exactly to the Penny Carter. Where? [00:08:23][5.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:08:23] So why are. [00:08:24][0.9]
Danny Moses: [00:08:24] They? I don’t expect so. I said I said these utility stocks are dead money. There’s no reason to own them. What I said was I don’t think the quarter on Jp morgan specifically so you got your drift down to the 110 105 100. I think you can get to 1.2 times tangible book which puts it down in the 85 type level. I think Tesla books around 70, not book tale. So if you paint a worst case scenario, so where do I start buying probably sub 100 or but you’re not going to miss anything here by not owning it. I guess that’s what I’m saying. I think that’s sport and that’s not a good strategy. But whatever. [00:08:55][30.7]
Guy Adami: [00:08:55] No, you’re right. Tangible book and Jp morgan is $69.53. If it were to get down to your level 1.2, that’s levels we haven’t seen. I mean, I’m sure I could look it up. I could Google it, as they say, but I guarantee I haven’t seen that since I’ve been doing fast money. Now, if we were to get there, what does that say about the broader market? I would submit that if Jp morgan the stock were to get down to, let’s just say 85 for shits and giggles, that would mean in my world the S&P 500 is probably trading either side of 3300. [00:09:25][29.6]
Danny Moses: [00:09:26] I don’t agree with you on your top 15 music. I couldn’t agree with you more on that comment. That’s exactly that’s my level. That’s all I think we’re going. I said the third quarter will probably be when we potentially make the lows. And what we’re seeing here, which I just want to say macro has taken over the micro obviously for sure this is the hardest trading tape I’ve ever seen in my career. It’s not a coincidence when there’s no one having your back that’s going to be there, say this is it. So this is going to be a very tough time for the next quarter. And you got to be patient. [00:09:52][25.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:09:52] And you just said, what is it going to say about the market? I would say, what is it saying about the economy? Right. If you look at homebuilders, the major ones, they’re all down again, 30% of the year, much like all these big money center banks. And obviously, from a lending standpoint, they’re kind of attached at the hip. But what are they saying about the economy? And so if you’re talking about levels in which to buy, it is really funny that we keep talking about tangible book. When we had David Solomon, was it about a month ago, a little more than a month ago, and you were talking about this was a closed door thing for the CME. And when you were quoting the banks on book, what did he say to you? [00:10:21][28.9]
Guy Adami: [00:10:21] He was not as concerned of tangible book. We had a conversation, but I will tell you to the penny. He knew where his stock was and he obviously knew what tangible and book value of Goldman is. I was happy to hear what he said. [00:10:33][11.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:10:34] He said, I don’t really care about tangible book. I care about full book. [00:10:36][2.6]
Guy Adami: [00:10:36] Yeah, yeah. Well, okay, I’ll play that game as well. I mean, I only use tangible book in relation to where things should be trading vis a vis, but if you want to do book value, you can put a multiple on that as well. The bottom line is you can come to the same levels in terms of your stock price. [00:10:49][12.9]
Danny Moses: [00:10:50] Tangible book starts to matter when you have losses because people will doubt the difference. You know what you’re carrying tangibly versus what you’re carrying that measure in a form of goodwill or whatever it might be. So it’s always when you’re looking to the downside, how far can you go use tangible in a growing environment, growing economy, maybe want to use book right to put that money to work. [00:11:07][16.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:11:07] Yeah. And so I guess the only point that I would make is that the way the banks have been leading to the downside, the way that homebuilders have been leaving to the downside, the most economically sensitive groups have been the worst acting groups all year long. Forget all this stuff in the Nasdaq. Is you still you look at the Nasdaq. Back and it’s only down 31% on the year or something like that. So to me, I think they’re telling you everything you need to know. And until we have a recession that is declared, that is official, until we start seeing some of the credit issues that you’ve been talking about. Well, I have been tracking the high yield index the way you have these banks. Why would you want to buy these banks unless you have a longer term time horizon and the wherewithal for another 20% to the downside? [00:11:44][37.6]
Danny Moses: [00:11:45] The entire economy has been based on financial engineering for the last 13 years. That’s why the banks matter so much. And you’re right. And the banks give a look. What would make Jp morgan go to 85 would be a slowing the economy credit, getting worse, fed not stopping, further inversion, all the things that are pretty much look like they’re happening right here. So we’re going to get Wells Fargo and Citigroup when this comes out. That’ll be out tomorrow morning. And then on Monday, we’ll get Bank of America and Goldman Sachs. So the next 3 to 4 days, we’re going to get a broad picture of what what does a Wall Street bank look like? Was an international exposed bank look like? So you’re going to get a piece. And again, I tell people I listen to the Jamie Dimon call today and I read through some of the notes just to get an idea. Billion dollar charge off. We’ll break it down. What is that? So you got to know what it is. Anyway, back to this is the hardest macro tape that I’ve seen. You got the euro break in the buck today. I don’t know where it is right now. You got the to ten U.S. to ten now further inverting somewhere in the 17 18 basis points basically cementing that in obviously. And then I took a look and I said, okay, if we’re going to play this Fed game over the next couple of weeks here, in terms of are they going to go 100, are they going to go to 75? And the fact that they told us in the last minutes they are looking at every data point. Let’s break it down a little bit, guys. All right. So CPI, pie, back to back days. A lot of it is based on energy that was based on gasoline price. We know that’s coming down in July. Here’s some other things that are on the horizon here. Retail sales, Friday, these are the ones I kind of picked out that I think will be the focus point. The news retail sales Friday, the housing market index on the 18th. On the 20th, by the way, Tesla earnings after the call in the 20th. [00:13:15][89.9]
Guy Adami: [00:13:15] Did you that, by the way, you’re going to be locked in for that. You’re going to have a lobster bib on for that. [00:13:20][4.5]
Danny Moses: [00:13:20] Exactly. That home sales. And then you get on the 20th also another and an oil inventories which by the way, if you saw gasoline inventories shooting higher, obviously you saw that and then you get Philly Fed, you get PMI, and then you get the Fed. And by the way, the Fed’s on the 27th, the day after the Fed, we’re going to see they were in a recession, which was the second quarter CPI number. [00:13:38][18.1]
Guy Adami: [00:13:38] That’s exactly right. And it’s interesting because earlier this week, not fast money, we had Jim Bianco on and he started talking about the Fed and what they needed to do. And my question to him was, well, there have been times throughout history where we’ve had emergency rate cuts, mid meeting right between meetings and I said it seems like we’re in a bit of emergency now with a 9.1% CPI. Why would they wait to the next meeting? Why wouldn’t they just do it? And his answer to me was, well, the optics of and I never do this on fast money, but I said, no, no, no, stop. I said, We’re well past optics when it comes to the Federal Reserve. They played that card. I’m not interested in hearing about optics. They’re well beyond optics. They’ve screwed the pooch. So is there a chance that they do some mid meeting rate hike? [00:14:25][46.6]
Danny Moses: [00:14:26] Danny Moses I don’t think so, but I misspoke. It’s GDP, sorry that comes out on the 20th. I think I said CPI. There’s so many acronyms floating around out there, but I don’t want to go on a Fed rant. I want to move on from that. But I will say is colossal mistake that they made taking forever to tighten the markets. They are, I believe, right now doing the opposite. I mean, what brain surgery does it take to see that with oil prices coming down and gasoline prices specifically, which are huge component? There are. Yeah, it’s not that difficult. We may have seen the peak number. We might have seen the peak number. Maybe we. [00:14:57][31.6]
Guy Adami: [00:14:57] Have it. Okay. I agree with you on that. So 9.1 is a ridiculous number and that’s obviously 9.1 before crude oil went from 115 down to current levels. Okay. So let’s just play the game. Crude oil has come down. Let’s say I know 35% that fair ish. Yeah. And let’s say that’s all that’s going to take. Inflation number down 35%. That takes us down to a I don’t know, high six handle or so. We’re still three times the level they need to be. So crude’s done a lot of work for them. There’s still a lot of work to be done. They’re three years behind the curve now. I’m arguing with you about the Fed, which is ridiculous. [00:15:32][34.4]
Danny Moses: [00:15:32] It’s great. I want to say I want Dan to get in here, but I want to say one other thing. We are now destroying the situation in Europe right now with the euro. Okay. The Fed granted it’s not their mandate. Let’s just use some common sense here. What Bernanke did at the time, which whatever he created this mess, whatever they did coordinate at the time. Europe’s in trouble right now. Yeah, they they have inflation, but they’re going to have a hard time raising rates right now because they are raising into a much worse economic situation. So what does that mean? It means the euro is going to keep collapsing. It means the dollar is going to keep strengthening at some point. That does part of the Fed’s job, right? The Fed has to start to use common sense. And it’s just they go from being willfully or blissfully ignorant for years to all of a sudden focusing and being myopic on one thing. And I think that there’s a middle ground somewhere. [00:16:17][44.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:16:18] Then going back to Jamie Dimon, he was quoted. In a paper in Europe prior to earnings, basically saying that the Fed is way optimistic that they think inflation’s going to get to 4%. So this is something you’ve been talking about, Guy. Even with crude oil down 30% from that February spike. And to your point, any gasoline we’re going to get to through the peak driving season, we’ve seen the national average go from five bucks down to 4.70. It’s likely to be somewhere around four by sometime in September, October. Let’s be clear on that. I guess the point is, is like we’re still having lockdowns in China. There’s headlines about it today. To your point about Europe, it just seems like an unholy mess. You want to talk about Mario Draghi resigning in Italy. I mean, it just seems like from one place to the next, the next, it’s getting worse there. So it’s kind of a hard one. I just don’t see our stock market bottoming. I don’t see the dollar coming in meaningfully. I don’t see crude oil and a lot of these commodities getting back on the horse either in a global recession. So it goes back to a sort of stagflation environment. [00:17:19][61.7]
Guy Adami: [00:17:20] So what you’re saying, Dan, and a lot of ways is to quote the great Allman Brothers in 1994, I think the Allman Brothers released a studio album Where It All Begins. One of the great songs on that album is No One Left to Run With Anymore. Everybody wants to know Danny where Jimi has gone. He left home. I’m tired of. Right, right. I mean, you know the line. [00:17:42][21.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:17:42] Did you listen? You were off last week. Did you listen? Danny and I had a little. [00:17:45][2.8]
Guy Adami: [00:17:46] Little Allman Brothers. You know. [00:17:46][0.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:17:47] We went back and forth on. And speaking of no one left to run with, what do you buy? [00:17:50][3.9]
Guy Adami: [00:17:51] Well, that’s my point, because why do you buy? There’s nobody left to run with. What are you doing? [00:17:55][4.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:17:55] Danny’s goal just made a new 52 week low today. [00:17:58][2.6]
Danny Moses: [00:17:58] Oh, it’s so horrible. The gold. I got it. I still take it over everything else. All right, can I say one other thing? [00:18:03][4.2]
Guy Adami: [00:18:03] You don’t need to ask permission. Okay? Okay. You just. I feel like they. [00:18:06][3.6]
Danny Moses: [00:18:07] And say, okay, walkie man, they’re really all listeners just hit pause. Fast forward. Okay. [00:18:11][4.6]
Guy Adami: [00:18:12] That’s first of all, that’s patently false. Again, people want to hear what you say is what keeps you are you’ve been right. You’ve been spot on all this wonky shit that makes people’s eyes glaze over a year ago now. But he’s locked into and oh, by the way, people on network television are talking about the shit that you brought up a year ago. Now it’s in everybody’s vernacular. I heard the other day, by the way, now I’m on a bit of a rant. Mike Santoli, you I happen to like he’s on TV all fucking day, by the way. It’s like they better be paying him a shitload of money because they run him into the fucking ground, number one. Number two, he actually said, you know what’s really interesting here, Joe or whomever, bond volatility. I’m like, Are you fucking kidding me? Now you’re talking about bonded currency volatility. So yeah, thank you. So my answer to you is yes. [00:18:56][44.2]
Danny Moses: [00:18:57] Part of that bond volatility. Here’s what we’re going to get over the next. You’re going to read about this in the next coming weeks. Okay. So everyone, both on the consumer and on the commercial side, have lines of credit that they draw and they use it. I guarantee you they’ve been drawn in the last few months. Well, a lot of these things have minimum percentages on them. Let’s take the consumer, for instance, so you have a line of credit. You’re driving against one of your assets. Normally it’s LIBOR plus this floor of 3%. You didn’t have to worry about getting the 3% moving because the Fed had kept rates low, which keeps prime, whatever you’re based upon. So I’m telling you right now, the mailings that went out this last month when the Fed made their last move that they did the 75 basis point move. There’s a new sheriff in town and it’s 3.6 is 3.8. They’re going again, it’s going to be 5%. So any lines of credit and that’s going to start to eat into the wallets in corporate and consumer America. [00:19:42][45.8]
Guy Adami: [00:19:43] GO You had a real opportunity to channel your inner Eddie Murphy and do there’s a new sheriff in town. [00:19:49][6.0]
Danny Moses: [00:19:49] Reggie Hammond his. [00:19:50][0.7]
Guy Adami: [00:19:50] Name is to Hammond. But you didn’t didn’t do it. You shit the bed there and you can’t go back and do it. [00:19:54][4.6]
Danny Moses: [00:19:55] I’m sorry. Is that in your top 15 movies, 48 hours. [00:19:57][2.1]
Guy Adami: [00:19:57] No, but it’s a great it’s in one of my it’s my top five Eddie Murphy movies. Eddie Murphy’s a fucking genius. And I’m cursing a lot this time because I am fired up. He could read the phone book and I would watch him do it because he’s the funniest man, in my opinion, in the last 40 years. Dan Nathan Place Dan is looking at me. See? You can’t see. [00:20:12][15.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:20:13] This. I’m just entertained. Keep going. [00:20:14][1.2]
Guy Adami: [00:20:14] No, don’t be entertained. I entertain you. I mean. [00:20:16][2.3]
Danny Moses: [00:20:17] The other thing which no one wants to talk about and again, the federal ignore and you mentioned China’s in lockdown. Covid’s coming back here. This sucks. Like I know no one’s talk about it. I get it. You could ignore it all you want, but I friends are now getting it again that are sick and they’ll be okay. Hopefully everybody okay. But I think it’s something to think about. Also as we end towards you want to talk about slowing, you know, economy not to belittle it or put it in any because it’s tragic and of its own, but it’s happening again. And whether because we’ve been through the booster cycle and we’re we’ve lost our ability to I don’t know. But it’s something else that’s going to be out there and it’s going to be rearing its head. So I hate to talk about it, but it is. [00:20:52][34.5]
Guy Adami: [00:20:52] Savita Subramanian and she does a great job. She’s been on fast money myriad of times. We should actually have her on this podcast. She made news this week because she took her target for the S&P down to 3600. Now, Danny, you say this all the time and I want you to opine a bit. If you’re bullish, if you have a 5000 price target in the S&P and it doesn’t get there, then the ramifications in this world for being bullish and wrong. But. God forbid, if you’re bearish and almost by definition, a 3600 price target in the S&P is bearish. There are ramifications for that. So she knows that she’s not dumb yet she did it anyway, which to me speaks volumes. Danny Moses. [00:21:33][40.5]
Danny Moses: [00:21:33] Yeah, I think. Well, listen, you want to see everyone do that, then? You know, it’s probably time to buy. But yeah, I think the risk reward of saying like that is you’ve got to be differentiator. She’s brilliant. I mean, I think she does her work. I don’t think she randomly throws stuff at a wall like many other strategists that are out there, maybe some that we’ve had potentially on the show at times. But listen to start that goes into it again. It is so hard right now to figure out what this is the hardest market to trade because what are the inputs going to be? You just things are moving like that too hard. So again, you’re going to get a lot of this. People come in and bring in price targets in on stocks, bring in S&P targets lower. And so and that’s when what you want to see in order to get some type of comfort level. But this is not going to be easy. [00:22:10][36.7]
Guy Adami: [00:22:10] So on June 14th was a Wednesday, I believe that was the Fed meeting that Jerome Powell walked off stage. And oh, by the way, if you’re a millennial and you think about buying a home, you might want to reconsider it. We could talk about that if you want, because he’s clearly trying to talk down to housing. But without question, housing is something that’s front and center on their radar screen. I mean, he doesn’t drop that to drop it. But that day the market rallied, I thought on fast money that night and I talked about it on our podcast, I said, there’s a very good chance we have this counter trend rally back to 4100 and the S&P 500. I think the S&P was like 3600 and change that day. We got up to 39, 55 ish and here we are. So my question I guess is, was that the rally and are we sort of almost is it fait accompli? Is the French say, Dan, that we’re going to go down to this 3200 that you’ve been talking about now for months? [00:22:59][48.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:22:59] I mean, listen, we’ve been talking about in the pot here, the rallies that we’ve seen, the counter trend rallies off the lows. They just keep getting weaker and weaker. And the one that we had off of the May low was weaker than the one we had off a march. And the June one was weaker than the May. So here we are. We’re limping into earnings season. I always kind of want to be careful with the banks here when you have so much negative sentiment. We talked about how they were leading to the downside and then you get that bad result and poor guidance. And look at this right now. Jp morgan hasn’t rallied a whole heck of a lot off the lows as we go into the close on Thursday. There’s 30 minutes left. It’s down three and a half percent. It was down maybe 5% of lows. But Morgan Stanley, which also had supposedly a difficult quarter, an okay guidance, is basically unchanged on the day. So it’s recovered from being down three or 4%. So the idea of pressing all of this negative sentiment and the bad news that we know that’s here is probably a bad trade, if you will. And I’ll just mention this also that overnight Taiwan semi, right. They reported it was kind of a mixed bag. I mean, it was a decent enough, but they talked about, listen, the demand is pretty good, but we’re also seeing an inventory situation here and that would be the back side of this whole stagflation area thing. If we see inventories build in large pockets, that would be a real problem for growth going forward. So to me, I think we’ve been talking one thing very specifically, we need capitulation like we saw strategists take down their targets for the broad market, but we also need to see analysts bring down the recipe earnings estimates. And that has not happened yet. [00:24:28][88.8]
Guy Adami: [00:24:28] I came in very hot today and Amanda Diaz, our crack producer, asked me to do something and I didn’t do it. I’ll do it. Now, at this point of the on the tape podcast, leave us a review if you like what you’ve heard, if you don’t like what you’ve heard, if you think I’m a Johnson, if you think Dan is the sexiest man in the history of the United States, if you think Dan Nathan was a marginal lacrosse player, if you think anything, please leave us a review. It helps us it helps me to sort of formulate and think about the show. It helps Dan Nathan, it helps Danny Moses. So please, folks, leave a review. [00:25:02][33.5]
Danny Moses: [00:25:02] Danny Moses So there’s a generation of investors, again, we’ll say, that have only known the Fed has had your back. These are natural market forces at work which are coming at people from all, by the way. [00:25:13][10.6]
Guy Adami: [00:25:13] That’s okay, that’s fine. That’s the way it should be. [00:25:15][1.9]
Danny Moses: [00:25:15] We are in the hurricane in that regard to what Jamie Dimon was maybe not an economic hurricane, but we’re in a stuff’s flying everywhere. And you have analysts that are literally looking up correlations to yen euro. What does that mean? [00:25:27][11.3]
Guy Adami: [00:25:27] They’ve never had to do that in the history of their careers. How to look at correlations dollar yen. And by the way, I’m not trying to be an alarmist here. We’re in July right now. It’s sort of warm outside. Pretty sure it’s warm in Europe. It ain’t going to be warm four or five months from now. And I hate to say this, I happen to think I’m true. There are people in Europe, they’re going to have to decide where they want to heat their homes or eat. It’s that binary. And we’re going to be talking about that in October, November of this year. Just stay tuned. Sports fans. I totally. [00:25:55][27.9]
Danny Moses: [00:25:55] Agree. And let me go back to Dan’s point about how we kind of stair step down to 32 or 3300. It’s almost in the worst kind of way because if it doesn’t happen on a massive capitulation moment, like a down 15, 20 in a day or two, what’s happening is we’re getting these rally 2 to 3%, sell off seven over a period of time. Those are the worst kind because what people are doing is they’re all right, I’m back and I’m I’m out there buying back at kind of the highs are selling the lows by and unfortunately that’s. Painful. And unfortunately, that’s what I see that’s occurring again. We can move on from this, but I’ll say it’s the quality and your timeframe has to change. It’s not about a week, a month or even a quarter. I think people start to think about really investing as opposed to trading, and I think there is an investable market always. [00:26:33][38.2]
Guy Adami: [00:26:34] We have to speak about Tesla because it wouldn’t be an on the tape podcast if we didn’t speak about Tesla. Dan is known me long enough to think I’m out of my mind and I’m sure Danny Moses has known me long enough to think I sort of like the way Guy Adami thinks. And I’ve said this before and people have looked at me cross-eyed, but now I’m saying to myself, Holy shit, I think I’ve been right all along. Why do I say this? Give me a second. I’ll let you know. Donald Trump, the former president of the United States, he’s not on Twitter. What is something called? What truth? Social truth, say with a little enthusiasm. He’s on something called truth. Social. And he tweeted this the other day and or whatever. It’s not a tweet on the truth that he Truth’d this the other day and I’m going to read it. When Elon Musk came to the White House asking me for help on all of his many subsidized projects, whether it’s electric cars that don’t drive long enough, driverless cars to crash or rocket ships to nowhere, which is actually pretty funny, without which subsidies he’d be worthless and telling me how he was a big Trump fan and Republican. I could have had him said, quote, Drop to your knees and beg and he would have done it. That’s a tweet or a truth from Donald Trump. Now, go ahead, Danny. Say a few things because I’m going to get into the Senate. [00:27:59][84.8]
Danny Moses: [00:27:59] Well, I mean, you know, which is funny, too, my least favorite people on planet Earth. And they’re actually saying things that I agree with them about, both the people, which is it’s really hard. I don’t know what the enemy of your enemy is. I don’t even know what the crazy. Right. Yeah. What the thing is. But what it does tell me is we went back and wondered because I apologize, Dan, for taking you down this it this Tesla hole over the last year and a half. And I, I know you’ve always known the company had interest, but I think being around me has it’s going to cause you some anguish, but we’re going to be right eventually. But now you look back, he was in the White House, we know in 2017, you know, 2018. He’s been there various times and he was playing the game that he needed to play. We come back and see he was protected. He was protected. That was always the. [00:28:37][37.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:28:37] Guy actually been saying that for four years. [00:28:39][2.0]
Guy Adami: [00:28:39] So now you’re on to something. Now we’re looking each other like we’re both crazy. And maybe we are. We’re not. Because I said this when this happened, I actually stopped in my tracks and said, Whoa, Joe KERNAN, who goes to Davos every year. Joe KERNAN from Squawk Box in the morning, 6 to 9 a.m.. He was in Davos, Switzerland. He was interviewing then President Trump and he asked him a number of questions. And I’ll say this, it’s because it’s sort of funny. But after he asked them what your favorite color is, Mr. President, he said, I want to play word association. I’m paraphrasing, but I’m pretty close. My memory is still pretty good. And he said, Elon Musk and Trump said, Elon Musk, one of our brilliant people here, genius, one of our geniuses. We have to protect our geniuses. The man that invented the wheel, the guy that invented electricity. And then he said something to the effect of. We did a lot for him. A lot of my people say how much trouble they were in and we did a lot for them. They’re going to do a lot for us. And I will tell you, I heard that I’m like, Holy shit. Because one of the things that was going on, S.E.C. investigation, the stock was under pressure. I will tell you, go back and look. The stock never ticked lower from that point on. And I said it on the show. I’m like, I don’t know what the fuck’s going on here, people. But he’s got air cover. He being Elon Musk. Well, you know what? That air cover is now left. And I’m telling you, just wait and see. Trump will put out another truth talking about all the things they did for Tesla in the stock and people and say, Whoa, that’s some crazy shit. So this Tesla chapter in the book, this is still going to continue on Danny Moses. [00:30:20][100.6]
Danny Moses: [00:30:20] Well, let’s go over some of the quotes. [00:30:22][1.8]
Guy Adami: [00:30:22] You think I’m crazy? [00:30:22][0.4]
Danny Moses: [00:30:23] No, I listen, I. What do you mean? I know it was January 2020 because I took I said I should never be short the stock again. And I said, Nah, that can’t be right. Fundamentals will matter. They’ll play out. I mean, so anyway, they’re both narcissists. They both had a relationship or knowledge of with Jeffrey Epstein. Right. Whatever. Right. So they have that in common. Congratulations, guys. They both have no regard for the law. They both will do whatever they can to obviously get their way. They both bully and intimidate wherever they can and never get stopped. They just kept going on. But here are the quotes, right? You had some of the quotes. Let me go back over them, which I agree with all of them. So Musk about Trump Bull in a china shop should hang up his hat and sail into the sunset. Okay, old man. Staring at a cloud, he put out that meme in The Simpsons. Okay, I agree with all that. Trump on Musk, right? You just said he makes driverless cars that crash couldn’t agree with him. More rocket ships to nowhere. Agree he says, I could have said, drop your knees and back and he would have done it. And the best part is that he would have failed without government subsidies. I’ve never agreed with these two guys ever, and I agree with both about what they’re saying to each other. Dan, just. [00:31:23][60.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:31:23] Hand me a bucket of popcorn and I’ll sit here and watch . [00:31:25][2.1]
Guy Adami: [00:31:26] well, that’s what it’s going to be. It’s going to be popcorn worthy. But I’ll say this, I actually think along with being worthy of sitting and eating popcorn, by the way, I like that cheddar coated popcorn, but it’s going to be stock moving as well. [00:31:38][12.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:31:38] So the timing, I think, of this little kind of truth tweet thing back and forth is pretty interesting because a couple of weeks ago, if you guys remember on what Danny would call was a Friday afternoon, dirty. [00:31:49][10.5]
Danny Moses: [00:31:49] Friday night, dirty. [00:31:50][0.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:31:51] Friday Night, dirty, where they announced that three for one stock split. They also announced that Larry Ellison was going to be leaving the board of Tesla. And what’s interesting about that is Larry Ellison is a big MAGA asshole. He’s a huge Trump supporter. He was. Remember, Trump almost delivered him, almost delivered Oracle Tick-Tock by decree. And then he said, and I want a piece of it. Remember that. Okay. All right. So then Larry Ellison quietly leaves Elon’s board because he basically knows that Ellen and Trump are about to go to war with each other. So there’s just so much going on right here. And then just to me, the other thing that no one’s even talking about, because Ellen’s too busy having babies and truth in this and doing that or whatever, is that they’re head of AI, of the self-driving thing. The thing that’s actually the reason why these dreamers who own the stock think it’s worth $700 billion. He leaves the company with no concrete plans to do anything on the doorstep of them. Introducing Level four Full Self-driving. [00:32:52][61.2]
Guy Adami: [00:32:53] By the way, I happen to think Vinny and Porter were with us when this thing dropped. And, oh, by the way, on the. [00:33:00][7.0]
Danny Moses: [00:33:00] Spaces that we were on a spaces. [00:33:01][0.9]
Guy Adami: [00:33:01] That’s right. We’re on a spaceship together. And by the way, say Vinnie and Porter, well, you know who they are. And by the way, they just dropped another investor. They’re up 85%. [00:33:09][7.7]
Danny Moses: [00:33:10] So you’re on the list now. [00:33:11][0.7]
Guy Adami: [00:33:11] That’s not a fucking typo. 85%. So good for them. It makes you know what? It makes me really happy. And I almost want to root for the Mets when I see something like that. Anyway, I just thought I’d mention it. [00:33:21][9.9]
Danny Moses: [00:33:21] Yeah, well, then Larry Ellison. That was Friday night, June 10th. Okay. Where that news came out. Three, four, one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Ellison’s leaving. No big deal. So it turns out, as we saw today in The Wall Street Journal, that the SEC had made an inquiry into, hey, this is eight K type stuff. So for everyone out there, an eight K is when you’re a public company and you say something that can be deemed to be market moving and you do say without putting out the proper form. Anyway, Musk has done that forever, but they decided to call him out on it as it relates to his intent on Twitter, because he’s effecting a $30 40 billion company the same time that shareholders in everything. So that happened prior to June 7th. And on June 7th, the lawyers that represent Musk sent back. We will continue to be mindful of what we say and now they’re coming back again. So none of this is a coincidence, right? This is all kind of leading up. So, Dan, before you open here, I want to say something. I should have stood by my investment philosophy on Tesla the same way I did carvana. I would short some carvana, but I really loaded up at 80. Yeah, because once it broke and it became clear that it wasn’t resting on fundamentals of which Tesla. [00:34:21][59.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:34:21] Does not set money right now people. [00:34:22][1.3]
Danny Moses: [00:34:23] So Tesla probably has a better I know this sounds obscene is it probably better short at 300 than it is it 700 because what will make it move from 7 to 3 is the break in kind of the cult nature of this name. [00:34:33][10.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:34:34] All right. So question. For you, Danny, because you’ve been following this story very closely, and I was following it more as a talking head for years, and now I got a little skin in the game. And it just hurts. It just hurts. But but my question to you here is that if Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla, one of the largest market cap companies in the world, if a Delaware court forces him to buy Twitter for $44 billion, which he had agreed to do, and let’s say he doesn’t do it, and then there’s some sort of like major legal action not by Twitter and their shareholders, but by the government. What does that mean for his standing as the CEO of Tesla? [00:35:16][41.9]
Danny Moses: [00:35:16] Dan, he’s done. I could name a dozen things already that would basically preclude him for being a CEO. [00:35:21][4.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:35:22] Make him unsuitable. Like wouldn’t any normal board have to kick his ass out of the company? [00:35:27][5.0]
Danny Moses: [00:35:28] This is the problem with the regulators, with the S.E.C. and everybody else, which back to where we started with this 15 minutes ago or whatever it’s been, has been because he was protected or whatever, got away with so much that there is a belief in the quote system that he’ll never get taken down, that nothing. And always, by the way, it happens when you finally drop your guard and you realize I’m not even paying attention because nothing can happen. I agree with you, Dan. He’s not fit to be CEO. Should have stepped down long ago. This board is nowhere. They’re just there. [00:35:54][26.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:35:55] So if he steps down tomorrow, let’s just say hypothetically, there’s a filing and he’s just going to be the last. [00:35:59][4.6]
Guy Adami: [00:36:00] Guy, 550. [00:36:00][0.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:01] That go straight to finance. [00:36:02][0.6]
Danny Moses: [00:36:02] Even now, way below 5050. [00:36:03][1.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:04] So all of his disciples leave basically the shareholders, they’re like, you. [00:36:08][4.3]
Danny Moses: [00:36:09] Know what an asterisk is on the Bloomberg. [00:36:10][1.0]
Guy Adami: [00:36:10] And then Roger Maris knows what one was because they put an asterisk next to his name in 1961, which was complete bullshit because Roger Maris was legit. Now all these assholes, he gets. [00:36:20][9.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:20] A straight shot. [00:36:20][0.6]
Guy Adami: [00:36:21] Just wants to go right past baseball. [00:36:22][1.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:22] Great shot to 500. [00:36:23][0.7]
Danny Moses: [00:36:24] I don’t think it opens that day, to be honest with you, am I? Honestly, I don’t think the stock opens that day. I mean, I think then so I don’t know if you want to make that call. If you make that call, then you should feel pretty good about your. Sure. [00:36:33][9.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:36:33] But I guess the point that I’m trying to get to is something very simple, is that when he got in trouble with the SEC a few years ago, he had to pay a $20 million fine. He had to stop tweeting. He had board approval of his tweets. He had to relinquish his chairman of the board. So what if he’s kicked off the board and he has to step down and then think about all of the loans, all of the the stock right. That he has margined with all these banks all over the U.S.. [00:36:59][25.5]
Danny Moses: [00:36:59] Dan, then I can tell you exactly what happens if all the things you’re saying play out. Every firm downgrades the stock. Tesla’s at 100 bucks, hundred and 50, and everyone runs and hides because there’s no more fees to get. And I know we find ourselves talking about the stock all the time, but it’s too good because it represents pretty much everything that’s going on right now in the markets and the capital markets specifically. And so maybe something happens. Maybe there’s a time when we get back on this podcast one day and do a postmortem on it. And I look forward at that time. And just in general, guys, a postmortem on this episode is fired up. You guys were too. And I’ll tell you when we get more fired up, because when we come back, with the pleasure of sitting down with New York Times bestselling author Jason Kander, who has a new book called Invisible Storm Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD. [00:37:40][41.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:38:09] CME Ad. IConnections Ad. Masterworks Ad. [00:38:58][49.1]
Guy Adami: [00:39:55] Jason Kander, a former Army captain who served in Afghanistan, was the first millennial ever elected to a statewide office. He is a president of National Expansion at Veterans Community Project, a nonprofit organization and host of Majority 54, a popular political podcast. Jason’s first book, Outside the Wire, was a New York Times best seller and Invisible Storm. A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD will be a New York Times best seller. Jason joins us here on the tape. Jason, first of all, thank you for your book. More importantly, thank you for your service to our country. [00:40:35][39.9]
Jason Kander: [00:40:36] Thank you. I really appreciate it. I’m glad to be with you. [00:40:38][2.4]
Guy Adami: [00:40:39] So before we get into that nuts and bolts of things, I’m going to put out a date. You I want to see how good you are. July 24th, 1983. Bronx, New York. Mean anything to you? [00:40:50][11.1]
Jason Kander: [00:40:51] It’s the pine tar game. [00:40:51][0.8]
Guy Adami: [00:40:52] That is the Pine Tar Game where George Brett lost his mind. By the way, I love George Brett. He owned the Yankees. You’re a huge Kansas City Royals fan. I will tell you. My favorite Roy of all time was the great Amos Otis. Yours. [00:41:06][13.9]
Jason Kander: [00:41:07] George Brett. But I’ve hung out with Amos Otis and incredibly awesome guy tells great stories about playing back then. Look, my son wears number five on the Little League team I coach. The only reason I don’t wear number five on my over 30 would bet baseball team that I play on is because the manager of the team was like, we retired number five in the Kansas City League. You’re not allowed to wear it. I’m a George Brett guy. [00:41:29][22.7]
Guy Adami: [00:41:30] I got to tell you something. When the royals came to town, that was must watch. And he absolutely owned the Yankees, but he owned everybody else as well in those Royals Yankees series back in the day were tremendous. I’m looking forward to the day where the royals get back to where they should be because it’s a very proud franchise. But we’re not there yet anyway. That’s my contribution to this. Dan. Why don’t you explain to the folks how you two met? [00:41:53][23.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:41:54] Jason, I don’t know if you recall this, but you and I, it was February 2020. We were on the set. We were about to do Stephanie RUHLE show, I think it was a 9 a.m. show in the morning. She is now obviously on the 11th hour and we were both big fans of hers, but it was kind of interesting for me is that guy and I, we meet a lot of people in Green Room for our CNBC show. I was like, Oh, I know this guy. You ran for Senate in 2016. A very close race in a very, very important election year. I started listening to your podcast, Majority 54. You had a lot of very astute, I would say, political takes on the podcast and reading this book, Invisible Storm, which you sent me, reached out. We were chatting about it. I think that it was really interesting because there’s really two stories going on here. Jason Kander in his twenties and going to American and being Georgetown Law and marrying your basically your high school sweetheart, just the aspirations that you had also as a patriot and wanting to serve your country and being in the ROTC while you were in law school. Just think about that. And then the other path of this story is that after you’re serving and coming back and all your political aspirations. So talk to us a little bit about it because there are two stories here. They obviously come together in a very harsh sort of reality, but it really is an uplifting story when you come out of it, too. [00:43:11][76.9]
Jason Kander: [00:43:11] Well, first of all, thanks. I really appreciate that. And before I even get into it, Dan, like, I want to go back and reference the day we met because I remember that extremely well. And I’m curious if you experienced it the way I did, which was everybody kind of remembers where they were when it became clear to them what COVID was really going to look like for me. My moment was we were live on MSNBC when I don’t remember the name of the guy because the third panelist for us was, I think, an epidemiologist, and he was explaining and this was February. So it was before everything shut down. He was explaining what it was going to be like. And I remember looking at you and looking at Stephanie, and we’re all like, Holy hell. [00:43:47][36.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:43:48] That’s actually a really interesting point. So the guy’s name was Matt McCarthy and he was a epidemiologist in a hospital here in New York. And he and I stuck around. I think we all chatted a little bit afterwards. I actually said to him, I gave him a little advice. I said, Dude, you’re coming in really hot right now. And I was like, Have you checked with your hospital about whether or not you know what I mean? And he actually did a lot of media. He started coming on CNBC. I introduced him to a couple of producers, and then he stopped altogether. The one thing I’ll just say about that moment is thinking back now is Guy and I were doing fast money on CNBC. Now, sadly, we often have to look at whatever is going on in the world through the lens of the stock market. That’s what we’re there to do. And we had been saying for a good part of January and February that, hey, listen, man city’s larger than any in the US, in China have been shut down. And we were taking it very seriously at the time and that was a moment in time. And I remember that conversation very closely. [00:44:44][56.1]
Jason Kander: [00:44:45] To your original question. And actually it fits in well with what we’re talking about here, which is the country’s been through a trauma. I mean, it’s not just me like this book is. It is about the coming of age. Tale of pursuing the presidency, where you have an undiagnosed, untreated, unacknowledged psychological disorder. So for listeners, if you’ve heard that one before. You know, just keep going. But you probably haven’t. But for me, it’s about more than that. I mean, it’s my story and it’s about going to therapy and achieving what I referred to as post-traumatic growth. But I feel like I spent so much time trying to belittle my trauma in order to diminish it and think that would make it go away. And I meet particularly on this book tour, I meet so many people who start conversations with me and it’s conversation where they want to tell me how they related to the book and what it did for them. But they’ll start with, I wasn’t in the military or I didn’t go to war. And I’m always like, Hey, that actually has nothing to do with it. I wrote this book because pretty much everybody at some point in their life has some sort of trauma. And then it’s a question of how do you deal with it? And I had learned a lot. I have learned a lot through therapy, and that’s really what I wanted to offer with the book. [00:45:48][62.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:45:49] Let’s talk about this a little bit, because what was the phrase that you just used this post? [00:45:52][3.9]
Jason Kander: [00:45:53] Post-Traumatic growth. [00:45:53][0.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:45:54] Growth, and you had been moving towards you just mentioned this kind of sequence in the book. When you’re talking about some of your early diagnoses or trying to figure out what you are, you were always moving hard towards something, right. And so it just seemed like whether it was school, whether it was sports, whether it was these campaigns, when you got back from the military, what was the thing that triggered you in a way to notice that there was some common thread to the way that you were working through every sort of challenge that you had and you were going 100 miles an hour. But ultimately, it seems like there was a period after you’d want a couple campaigns, but you were going for the big one, right? Was it something about that 2006 campaign running for Senate that really kind of changed it really made you recognize that there was something under the surface that you really had to address. [00:46:41][47.1]
Jason Kander: [00:46:42] I knew that what I was experiencing was not what other people were experiencing, but I always had a story I could tell myself. And that story was deeply seeded in a belief that I had. That belief was that what I did was no big deal in the military, and there’s a reason for that. And that is that there’s a very necessary form of brainwashing that the military does. I say necessary because I’m not knocking it. And what it does is they tell you from the moment you get there to your entire threat, your service, that what you’re doing is no big deal. It’s necessary because if they didn’t do that, like with me as an intelligence officer, I’m not going to be able to keep going into rooms of people who might want to kill me to gain information and bring it back. And other folks can’t keep conducting patrols. And so you have to believe that what you’re doing is not that big of a deal. The problem is, is that when you get out, nobody flips that switch off. Nobody says, actually, that was quite a big deal. And so with me, I’m going through all this time where I’m having night terrors. I feel like I’m in danger all the time. I’m having really negative feelings about myself, really a lot of self-loathing, but I’m thinking, well, it can’t be from Afghanistan because I have it on good authority that what I did was no big deal. And even if I have an inkling that it could be from Afghanistan, or if I even at some level kind of know, I can’t acknowledge it because that feels like stolen power. That feels like I’m claiming the same mantle as friends of mine who got shot and things like that. So the whole time I’m telling myself that that’s not the case, but I also recognize that other people aren’t stocking their house with a gun at night and other people seem to sleep through the night and they aren’t having nightmares about being kidnaped, which was my greatest concern as an intelligence officer. So I knew that, but I was kind of at war with myself over it, and I started to gradually acknowledge it when during my Senate campaign, I remember having this constant feeling of, I just got to keep going. I know that when I’m going, I’m okay. Now, what I didn’t understand at that point was it’s not the going that made me feel good. It’s the not being with my own thoughts. It’s the not being with intrusive memories and disruptive emotions. So then by the time I’m pretty much running for president in 2018, I’m doing that soft. I’m going to run, but I can’t legally say it out loud thing. But I’m going to 46 states and going to Iowa and New Hampshire all the time. I’m now at that point kind of acknowledging to myself, but not saying out loud to anybody that I’m like any other addict, that I’m stringing endorphin highs from the campaign trail and from my career successes together. And if I can keep them closer together or make the highs high enough to last, then I’m okay. And it was the moment where I gave the biggest speech of my career in New Hampshire, gave the keynote, carried on national television. It was really the, okay, I’m going to run speech and it went great. But the endorphin heightened last. I mean, by the morning I felt empty. And that was the first time that I was like, something seriously wrong. [00:49:31][169.1]
Guy Adami: [00:49:32] You know, people say, well, why would you run for president? The reality is President Obama pulled you aside. You had almost a two hour conversation, I think, with him, where he encouraged you to do exactly that. Can you speak to that? [00:49:44][12.8]
Jason Kander: [00:49:45] Yeah. Even before I get to that, I got to explain. I kind of hit this weird wind pocket in American culture. I mean, a lot of this is serendipity, right? Like I run for the US Senate and. 2016, Trump wins my state by more than he won Mississippi, so my party lost by 19 points in my state. I almost won. I lost by 2.8. So everybody’s looking at me going, Well, how’d you do that? You’re a progressive. How did you get all these Trump voters to vote for you? That kind of started it. And then so I’m in this wind pocket and I’m getting mentorship from afar, from President Obama. I’m getting mentorship from other people. I’m starting to get invited. Everybody at that point was like, What do we do from here? People are grasping for leadership. I think I described it in the book as a it was like waking up from nuclear annihilation, coming out of the bunker, being super down, but then trying to get energized about the fact that the other five survivors were like, we think maybe you’re in charge. And so that’s where I was. And then I was already pretty seriously hustling to put myself in a position to where I could run, but I wasn’t sure that I should be. I had been the secretary of state of Missouri, so I had a little bit of imposter syndrome about it. But yeah, President Obama pretty well summoned me to come and see him in Washington. We had this great conversation where it wasn’t like he was like, You’re the guy, you should run. But he did say to me, after kind of rolling through all the potential disadvantages of being somebody who not enough people knew, yet he did say that you have what I had. You’re the natural. And my self-esteem was always suffering because of PTSD. My self-confidence never really flagged, but that helped it. [00:51:13][88.0]
Guy Adami: [00:51:13] I’ll tell you somebody whose self-confidence clearly doesn’t lag, and I’m not asking you to play politics here, but Eric Greitens, who also has written a book I know some SEALs that know him as well. I won’t get into their thoughts about him. But you think about how polarized we become when I see some of the ads that he’s recently run. It’s shocking, actually, when you see that. And again, I’m sure a lot of people listening to this have seen those advertised. What does that make you feel like? [00:51:42][28.2]
Jason Kander: [00:51:42] I’m worried about it. I live in the state. And so, Eric Greitens, I give you some insight on Eric Greitens. I’ve known Eric Greitens a decently long time by political standards, I guess because we were both existing in the world of Democratic veterans who were active in politics around 20 1314. So everybody was saying to him, Do you know Jason Kander? And everybody saying to me, you must know Eric Greitens. He lived in Saint Louis, I lived in Kansas City, and he had started the mission Continues, which to its credit, is a really valuable veteran serving organization. So I met Eric, liked him. We got along very well. I got involved with Mission Continues. I’m not a super rich guy, but I became one of many lower level donors to it. And I also was hearing at the time that Eric was meeting with the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee that he was figuring out which Democratic congressional or which congressional seat he was going to run for. As a Democrat, I had plenty of friends in the Democratic Party who he had been to their events and endorsed them. He had driven 18 hours with the former Democratic governor of Missouri to Denver to see President Obama accept the Democratic nomination in 2008 and then all of a sudden in 2016, he decides he’s a really, really right wing Republican, which was a big surprise to a lot of us and announces for governor. I say all this with the acknowledgment that him disingenuously changing his politics on a dime is like 20th on the list of really, really concerning things that this guy has done. And for people who are curious, they can look that up if they don’t know. But that’s my personal experience with him. And look, people change their minds. They change their views about stuff. This dude went from pretty far left to pretty far right, like overnight. And frankly, that combined with the other stuff he’s done is sociopathic behavior. Like he is a dangerous, frightening dude. [00:53:26][103.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:53:27] Yeah. Well, it’s interesting. You just used the expression imposter syndrome. And one of the themes throughout the book and when you’re trying to deal with this PTSD is really you had this guilt you just mentioned you were an Army intel guy. You were active for a year and a half, but you were only in Afghanistan for four months. You were not on combat patrols, but you were in very dangerous situation. So that combination of you feeling guilt about coming back and not serving in Afghanistan the way a lot of your fellow soldiers were and feeling this, whatever you were feeling after the fact, you felt like you didn’t deserve to do that, right? You weren’t in the trenches the way a lot of these other soldiers who had been named in hurt and obviously even die. Talk to us a little bit about that, because it seemed to be you got back at some point in the mid-to-late aughts in a lot of the work that you did, whether it be from a political standpoint, whether it was just running away from all of that. And so you’re running right towards that situation, though, where all of a sudden you find yourself in the biggest political stage, right? Ten years after getting back to the U.S., but still feeling you’re not deserving of it. [00:54:35][68.9]
Jason Kander: [00:54:36] I had this sort of mirage out in front of me of redemption that if I can just do this, I’ll feel like I did enough. And it, just like you said in my mind when I went over combat, was what you see in the movie Black Hawk Down. That’s a combat is. And so I came home having been in these situations that. At the time, I understood, were exhilarating and everything, but I hadn’t fired my weapon and I felt like, well, that’s not combat. And I told myself that for a decade. And it wasn’t until I was sitting down with a clinical social worker at the VA after signing Get Help, where she said to me, she was like, Let me get this straight first. Yeah. She said, Your friends who are in firefights, what did they say about what you did over there? And I said, well, they always say they don’t know if they could have done the job I did. They’re being nice. And she’s like, look, they’re not. She was like, You went to the most dangerous place in the planet. And then you were basically alone, you and a translator, for hours at a time, totally vulnerable, meeting with people who you couldn’t know whether they were setting a trap for you or not. And there was nobody knew where you were, so nobody was coming to save you. She’s like, That’s combat. You’re a combat veteran. That’s traumatic. And it was like when she said it back to me, that way I could see it almost as if somebody was, you know, and I realized, like, if I met somebody and they told me their deployment and they told me that I’d be like, Yeah, that’s pretty legit. But to me, the takeaway from all that is that all of us are going through life in America. You don’t have to be a combat veteran. Could be a bad divorce, a car accident, something happened in your childhood or losing a loved one watching the news. I mean, there’s so many different ways to sustain trauma now. And we all do what I did for ten years, which is to say it’s no big deal. Now, I think what complicates that is there’s a big part of the American myth that pushed me to be charging ahead and going to the next hill the whole time. And that is what I think of as like the redemption myth. And the best example I can think of right now is Top Gun. I love both Top Gun movies. My son and I went to see Top Gun Maverick with my dad and my brother will go again, so I’m not knocking them. But the top gun structures Goose dies and then Viper walks in and delivers the news that Goose died and says, Hey, you got to get past it. And then what happens next? In the third act, he goes and he fights some bad guys, he kills some bad guys, and then he’s good. He throws Goose’s dog tags off the deck and he gets the girl and he’s fine. That story is repeated over and over and over again in our culture, and it leads us to believe that, yes, trauma is real, but the way you conquer trauma is not through therapy. It’s not through that kind of work. You conquered trauma through singular acts of redemptive heroism. And I look back now and I think that’s what I was doing. I felt deeply that I had not done enough as a member of the service. And so I was just trying to redeem myself by just hollowing myself out, giving myself completely over to my career and then thinking, ultimately, you know, I’ll save the world. But now I look back and I’m like, to use another movie reference, I could have been Bill Pullman’s character on Independence Day. I could have gotten elected president and flown a combat mission to defeat an alien invading force. And I think I still would have been like I haven’t done enough. And what I really needed was a go to therapy. [00:57:47][191.5]
Guy Adami: [00:57:48] Problem with that, of course, being Randy Quaid is out of this fucking mind. But anyway, I digress. Danny, I know you got some thoughts. [00:57:54][5.4]
Jason Kander: [00:57:54] Well, Randy Quaid had PTSD from being abducted by aliens, so it actually is a perfect little button on the analogy. [00:58:01][6.5]
Danny Moses: [00:58:02] Jason. Hi, Danny Moses here. Nice to meet you. But the person that actually met you first in person was my sister, Lynn Garfinkel. She met you in Ohio, I guess, at a campaign event in 2018 for Kathleen Clyde. And I’ve been hearing about you ever since. And about six weeks ago, she says to me, you really got to start tracking this guy, Jason Kander. He’s coming out with this book. I mean, what he’s done in the community is incredible. And her and her husband, Michael, are in Boulder, where Dan’s brother is, by the way, and in Longmont, one of the VCP locations. They donate time and resources to it and they swear by it. So she wanted to say hello. [00:58:35][32.9]
Jason Kander: [00:58:35] Absolutely terrorized. Thanks. [00:58:37][1.4]
Danny Moses: [00:58:37] Jason. I know you’re spending your time on a lot of different things, but I know one of the things is near and dear to your heart is a veterans community project VCP, which you credit really with helping you happen to be located in Kansas City and now you’re president, I guess, of national expansion. Can you just explain that organization? It’s really cool. I looked into it after I read the book. I’d love to hear more about it. [00:58:55][17.8]
Jason Kander: [00:58:56] Yeah. Thanks, Danny. I appreciate the question. So Veterans Community Project, we do two major things. One, we fight the suicide epidemic among veterans and generally serve veterans by operating walk in clinics we call outreach centers for any veteran to come in and get any service. And we just basically leverage that goodwill and deep reservoir of support in the community to provide that. So everything from what I got help with, which was expediting my paperwork at the VA to emergency assistance loans for folks who might be about to be homeless if they don’t get a lot of help with rent, to counseling, to everything. But then what we’re much better known for is the other part of our work, which is the residential side, which is to say we build villages of tiny houses for homeless veterans and we provide wraparound case management services to transition homeless veterans back into being permanently and independently housed. We do it with an 85% success rate, which is pretty well unheard of in this space. And the reason that we’re able to do that is we approach it in a. A unique way, which is to say we sort of restart the military to civilian transition back at day one in our villages. They feel and look a lot like active duty housing. So when you come in, it’s like we’re putting you back in the world that you were most recently stable and successful, and then over the course of your time with us, we gradually transition you into being fully prepared for civilian life. And it’s the best civilian job I’ve ever had. My job is, as you said, president of national expansion. And in the last three years, we’ve been able to make a lot of progress. We’re now in the Denver area in Longmont and Boulder County, as you mentioned. We are also building in Saint Louis and in Sioux Falls. We’ve bought land now in Oklahoma City and are going there and then went to spread elsewhere. After that, all of my royalties from this book actually go to veterans community project. [01:00:36][99.8]
Dan Nathan: [01:00:36] One thing was really clear in the book is that your coming across VCP was really an important part about your recovery from this PTSD. And I want to take a step back, though, and really talk about the therapy in the moment in which you realized that you needed to go into therapy. It’s very interesting that you talk about going straight to the VA and the difficulty of actually getting the sort of therapy that you needed given how far away you were from your active duty commitment. And you mentioned that that has changed a bit, but speak to us a little bit about the experience with the VA. And also, I’m sure you’re never done with this sort of therapy kind of attack, the sort of issues that were kind of under the surface for a very long time and really disrupted your life for a bit. But it seems like the way you come out of this thing, you’re doing really well. But you’re also at a point you were kind of skeptical of how the short amount of time that you were actually in therapy, which might speak to how well of treatment that you got from the VA. [01:01:34][57.3]
Jason Kander: [01:01:34] Yeah, that’s absolutely right. It was all really colored for me by the fact that when you think about it, the depictions of people who have gone to treatment for PTSD and then gone on with their lives and done and done well with it, you just can’t think of them. Nobody ever shows that on TV or in movies, but it’s super common. There’s people walking all around us all the time who’ve had trauma, went to therapy and went back to their life and they manage PTSD. You don’t have any idea about it? Well, I didn’t know that. And so I knew that I wanted to go to the VA because I knew that I wanted to sit across from somebody who talked to people like me all the time. And I realized that because the way that I really decided that I definitely needed help was and things got really bad and really dark and I’d become somewhat suicidal. I was having suicidal thoughts. This is a good moment to pause and say for people listening. The book is also got a lot of jokes. There’s a lot of levity you might not be able to tell from the way I’m talking about it now, but I wanted to make sure it’s very readable, so it’s fun to read. [01:02:31][56.7]
Dan Nathan: [01:02:32] Can I pause for a second there? I mean, again, we started out this conversation by saying it’s really two stories that collide at one point. I mean, this story and it’s not done being written. Jason, you’re a young man here. I mean, your political ascension, your academic achievements, you’re serving over there and everything that you’ve done since then with the VCP and some of the political causes that are near and dear to your heart, like voter suppression, some progressive causes. You were a great voice for so many of these things. So to me, I think this is part one. And I do think it’s interesting that the book is called Invisible Storm A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD. It’s not just about that. [01:03:14][41.7]
Jason Kander: [01:03:14] Right? Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And that’s for me going to the VA like that and then recounting it in this book gave me the opportunity to make therapy accessible for people so they can see sort of how I got to this next act in my life, this post-traumatic growth stage, because it makes it more accessible to people. And so as I went into the VA, you’re right. Like I got to a point where we were maybe four months in and I was feeling much better and I’d just been going to weekly therapy appointments, I’d been doing the homework I was given in between. And because I had never really seen any depiction of somebody in post-traumatic growth, I didn’t know that was a real thing. And I thought, well, I guess maybe did I never have PTSD? How am I better so quickly? And my therapist was like, No, no, this is how it works. This is what is supposed to happen. And he showed me all these studies to show like, Yeah, yeah, this is the amount of time it takes. And yeah, I, it is an ongoing part of my life. I don’t go to weekly therapy anymore, but when things happen in my life, I do sometimes go in just like anything else. Like I go to my regular doctor for a blood test every six months. And more recently in my life, I’ve been really involved in asking an evacuation efforts ever since last August. And it was about six weeks ago that my wife was like, Hey, I think maybe it’s time to deal with some of that stuff. And so I went back to Nick, my therapist at the VA, and I did it, I think, four appointments, for weekly appointments, and it was very helpful. But the difference now is I understand trauma is not wine, it doesn’t age. Well, don’t let it age deal with it when it happens, which is not what I did 14 years ago. And this book is me saying, Hey, read this so you’ll know not to do that. This is the book I wish I’d been able to read. [01:04:50][95.8]
Guy Adami: [01:04:50] Then what I find fascinating about. What the nation is going through now. I’ve been watching these January six committees. This is not political, by the way. I’ve been watching them because I think it’s incumbent upon all of us to sort of understand what happened not only on that day, but the events leading up to it, the events in the aftermath. And I watched somebody like Liz Cheney, who to me has been just very methodical. But then I see somebody like Adam Kinzinger and I say to myself, you and him, you’re the same type of person. Politics notwithstanding, probably have different views on different things. Politically, that’s fine. But there’s a steadiness to both of you that I think this country needs. Have you been watching this? Do you find that to be at all interesting? Because I think we’re all going through a very similar thing right now. [01:05:34][43.1]
Jason Kander: [01:05:34] I’ve been watching it a bit. I’ve been watching Adam Kinzinger for a while and I’ve never met him. I would like to sometime look, Adam Kinzinger is a lieutenant colonel in the Air Force. And when I look at Adam Kinzinger, I just see, like a lot of people I know, he’s a military officer. He’s approaching this not like a politician. He’s approaching it like a military officer, which, by the way, is how a lot of politicians used to approach being in Congress and that sort of thing. And so, yeah, I’m sure there’s lots of stuff he and I disagree on, but the commonality is that I would just say that I do think that there is something to the idea that when people are in important positions and getting that important position is not the hardest thing they’ve ever done in their life. I think there’s something to that, because what it means is that losing that job would, by the inverse, not be the worst thing that ever happened to them, and therefore they’re willing to do the job. And by the same token, I think that there’s a lot of value in having people in office who have dealt with their stuff, because we’ve all had stuff. And I think there’s just a lot of folks in positions of power who it’d be good if they dealt with their stuff. [01:06:41][66.6]
Dan Nathan: [01:06:41] Let’s talk about that for a second, because in the book you mention that historically, you know, mental health issues for political candidates or politicians in general have been a death sentence. And look at the way that you have just taken on this mental health issue, which affects millions and millions of people here, whether they served in the military or not. How do you think about changing thoughts around that sort of thing or is Jason can are going to be a candidate for something else? Again, I know that again, you started out state legislator, you ran for Senate, you were thinking about running for president. You could have easily won the KC mayoral race, that sort of thing. It seems like there’s a lot more for you to do. I know you’re doing a lot of great stuff with nonprofits and helping a lot of vets in a whole host of different ways. But the guy’s point, when you look at this select committee that is hopefully prosecuting a very, very worthy cause, we need more people like you who have they know what it’s like to lose something more than just a seat every two years in Congress. [01:07:38][57.1]
Jason Kander: [01:07:39] When I made my announcement, I really thought that that was it. On my political career right now it’s like, Hey, I have PTSD and suicidal thoughts. I’m going to deal with it here. I thought that what I was doing was taking a leap of faith, a chance that maybe I could go to therapy and get better because I had no idea if I could. I just couldn’t go anymore. So I couldn’t keep going. And I was like, I got to go do this. But yeah, I thought that I was taking the one thing in my life that was going well and treating that in for the chance of being able to get better. What I had no idea of at the time was how people were going to respond to it. And it’s either this or the work I do with veterans community project or the Afghans that I’ve been able to play a part in evacuating over the last few years that are the most important things in terms of public impact outside of being a father and a husband that I’ve ever done in my life. They put everything I did in public office, like way in the rearview in terms of my impact and my importance. And so that means a couple of things to me. One, yeah, look, I think if at some point and it’s very possible that if at some point I again have the desire to seek an office like mayor or president or something that I think I could do, that I know I could do the job. But it also means for me that I have learned that if what I care about and it is very much what I care about now, if what I care about is just making a difference, boy, I’ve made a much bigger difference without having to worry about hanging on to a political office than I did before. And so in the future, maybe I’ll run for something again, but I guess I’m just really comfortable now being like, I don’t know, maybe one day, but I’m not doing anything to try and make it happen. [01:09:14][94.5]
Danny Moses: [01:09:14] Jason So I kind of search through your stuff and I try to find comments that you might make about Wall Street because obviously this is an investment style podcast and we like to talk about all different subject matter. I’m just curious, not your thoughts on Wall Street in general, but it makes sure that you’re aware the amount that Wall Street does. And really it was happening before 911, but it really accelerated after. I mean, Citi has programs where they hire veterans. Drexel Hamilton’s a firm that’s dedicated hundred percent owned by veterans, Goldman Sachs, Jp morgan. Everybody wants to be involved. And I’m just curious your thoughts on that in general. Are you active at all? And Adam, don’t ask you to take a stance. Where do you think Wall Street’s good or bad? But I just love to hear your thoughts on that. [01:09:50][36.0]
Jason Kander: [01:09:51] No, it’s fine. I actually. Particularly with vet. Community project. I raised money for it as a nonprofit. So I’ve spent a lot of time with folks in the finance industry, in particular in New York, talking about this stuff. And one of the things that I have noticed is that this is a world that I hope that in this regard, the rest of the private sector in the United States can catch up, too, and that it is a world that understands that military veterans have a lot they bring to the table beyond like, hey, can we make them a police officer or a security guard, which I think too much of our society thinks like, well, that’s the transferable skill, and it doesn’t go beyond that. And I have met a lot of people on Wall Street who came out of the military. That’s where they develop their leadership skills. That’s where they develop their decision making skills. And so I would absolutely credit the industry for identifying that and for recognizing that giving veterans a job is not a act of charity. It is a really solid business decision. [01:10:43][52.5]
Danny Moses: [01:10:44] I would actually say that what’s going on on Wall Street right now, they may need to move into some of these many home soon enough. So maybe you can do a project for a while to see just what are the thing on that? I was fortunate enough to be involved in Navy SEAL Foundation. Army Rangers Lead the way fund Jimmy Regan, who went to Duke. I don’t know if you know his story. He was a lacrosse player about your age, graduated in 2004, could have worked on Wall Street, could have done anything. And he wanted to basically fight for the country and became an Army Ranger. And I was very involved in that. When I was involved with that charity, I bought one of these weekends where you go down, fly into Memphis and you go to the secret location in Arkansas. And three of my buddies and I went there for two days, put the packs on, did rescues, did all that stuff. And what was really interesting or horrifying, I should say, is that the Green Berets and the people, we would take them out at night on Beale Street. We’d be like, hey, guys, come out with us. The amount of PTSD that they had from being in the fight, they showed us videos, they had cameras on their helmets, they showed us some stuff and we were sitting in restaurants and they won’t sit with their back to the window and they’re walking down the street. And when I left there with my friends, I said, My God, they fought a war and now they’re back and they’re in their own country and their fields. And I could see it. And so when I read your book, it brought back out all that raw emotion. And so seeing that, I would tell everybody out there to reach out to veterans and just communicate because I was felt helpless. I mean, what they went through and saw, I would never see something, but just want to get your thoughts on that in general and those organizations. And they do so much. [01:12:09][84.8]
Jason Kander: [01:12:10] Yeah. No, there’s a lot of great organizations that that work with veterans. And I think when you were telling that story, what it had me thinking about is just the way that in our country right now, the military community and the civilian community are so disparate. And the thing is, it really contributes to this sense of isolation among veterans, because when you think back to our history, this is the longest consecutive period in American history without some form of mandatory service. And what that means is folks come home after serving and all of a sudden there’s very few people around them who really had a common experience with them. It’s why at Veterans Community Project we have a village of people who have a shared experience. That’s what it all starts with, right? And so in other cultures, there’s a real effort made to re-orient and to bring the warrior back into the society. But the way they do it is they close that distance by having a lot more people experience what you experience to watch the videos, to get a better sense of what it is to be in that fight. And what that does is it gives you a greater understanding of them, but it also closes the distance just a little bit between you and them. And then what happens is, is that you as a member of of a community like myself, as a member of a community, I don’t feel quite as separate from other people. If I feel like they’ve at least shown genuine interest and learned about what we did. The example I use in the book is that Native American tribes often had ceremonies where the Warriors would come back and they would the whole tribe would get together and everybody would tell in vivid detail the stories from what they saw. And what that allowed is, is for the entire community to have somewhat experienced it together. And I for me, it’s like a lot of those times when I was campaigning and, you know, I was talking about my service because it’s what I had done professionally, but I knew which stories I could tell and which stories I could sanitize and tell, which stories I could tell and get a laugh and which stories I learned quickly. Which stories you don’t tell because people aren’t ready for it and they recoil and they see you differently. And that increases the sense of isolation among veterans. [01:14:15][125.2]
Guy Adami: [01:14:16] Jason, it takes courage to serve. We thank you on hebalf half a Danny Dan and myself. Thank you for your service. But you know what? It also takes courage to be vulnerable and to talk about these things and to seek help. But I think more people should understand that not look at it is a weakness, but actually a strength. And I will say this, I think our country needs more. Jason Kanders on both sides of the aisle and I encourage all of our listeners to go out and get your book, Invisible Storm A Soldier’s Memoir of Politics and PTSD. Thank you for joining us, Jason. [01:14:50][34.2]
Jason Kander: [01:14:50] Thank you. I really appreciate it. [01:14:52][1.2]
Guy Adami: [01:14:53] CME AD [01:14:54][0.8]
Dan Nathan: [01:15:18] On the tape is a risk reversal media production. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All opinions expressed by me and Nathan Guy, Danny, Danny Moses and any other participants are solely our opinions and should not be relied upon for specific investment decisions. [01:15:18][0.0]
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