On this episode of Okay, Computer. Dan Nathan is joined by his “On The Tape” co-host Guy Adami to discuss the current stock market environment (1:40), Netflix transitioning to an ad-supported network (8:30), and Tesla earnings (11:30). Later, Dan and Guy interview Molly Jong-Fast, host of the Fast Politics podcast, and talk about how she got into podcasting (18:30), the state of American politics (29:25), inflation (36:37), and Elon Musk (46:51).
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Show Transcript:
Dan Nathan: [00:00:36] Current Ad. Okay. Welcome to okay computer. I am Dan Nathan. I have a very special co-host here today. His name is Guy Adami. He is my co-host of On the Tape podcast that he and I do drops every Friday morning with our good friend Danny Moses. Guy Adami welcome to okay computer. [00:00:53][17.3]
Guy Adami: [00:00:54] Our world collided on Sunday evening. I was with my brother’s kids, one of my sisters, her kids, and we were talking about music. He said, yeah, it was like that Radiohead album, okay computer and I literally my jaw dropped, so it all makes sense. [00:01:10][15.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:01:10] So we never talked about the naming of this other podcast that we started early this year on our podcast network, Risk Reversal Media. [00:01:17][6.8]
Guy Adami: [00:01:17] Now, I’m sure we did, but as usual. [00:01:19][1.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:01:20] In one ear and out the other. Okay Guy. We brought you in today because we got a really big interview. We have a friend of both of ours, Molly Jong-Fast. She is the host of Fast Politics. It’s a brand new podcast on the iHeart Radio Network. It drops three times a week Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So smash that subscribe button. But Molly is going to join Guy and Me. We’re going to talk about the business of podcasting and how she uses all of these different media mediums to get her message across and how she’s monetizing it. We’re also going to talk about some of the major political issues that voters are considering as we go into the midterms in just a couple of weeks. But, Guy, you and I, let’s hit the markets right here. It’s been a really volatile week. It’s been a pretty bad year for the markets. The S&P at its lows last week was down about 25%. The Nasdaq was down a little more than 35%. We’ve had a huge rally in the Nasdaq off of those Thursday morning lows. Guy, almost 9% at its highs today. Talk to me a little bit about the volatility that we’re seeing. A lot of it has had to do with some of these major tech stocks. We’ve talked about it a lot. These top six or seven names make up nearly 50% of the Nasdaq 100 and a little more than 25%, the S&P 500. It really is that handful or that basket of stocks that are dictating the course of the markets. [00:02:37][76.7]
Guy Adami: [00:02:38] Yeah, no question about it. We’ve seen about a 9% move to the upside in the major indices over the last basically two and a half, three trading days, which is great because most people obviously want the market to higher. I understand that. But it does not speak to the health of the market and it does not speak to the fact that all the ills facing the market have been cured. One of the things I’ve said for years, and I know you adhere to this, the biggest rallies, the most violent rallies take place in bear markets. And quite frankly, that’s what we’re in the midst of now. So although this feels good that the market’s going higher and a lot of people want to breathe a collective sigh of relief, I think the problems that are facing the market are still there Dan. [00:03:19][41.0]
Dan Nathan: [00:03:20] Yeah. So two big problems, right? Rising interest rates and the strength of the U.S. dollar. And when we think about when those both started going up, let’s call it at the end of last year, what did we see? We saw some of the riskiest risk assets go lower. We saw crypto turnover, we saw SPACs turnover. We saw high valuation tech stocks without earnings turnover. So I guess here we are. We’re towards the end of October, very soon here and we’re almost anniversary the pivot of the US Federal Reserve saying that they’re going to start battling inflation. Talk to me a little bit as we get to the end of this year. Might we see this getting kind of long in the tooth and might some of the things that got hit the hardest at that pivot Guy, might they start to kind of pick their heads up a little bit? Because if the anticipation is is that the dollar can’t go too much higher or rates can’t go too much higher, shouldn’t some of the hardest hit risk assets start to maybe show some relative strength and lead to the upside eventually? [00:04:13][53.4]
Guy Adami: [00:04:14] Anecdotally, we’re seeing exactly that. And you can speak to this because you know the company far better than I. But Starboard today made an announcement that they’re taking a stake in Salesforce.com. That symbol was CRM. And their reasoning wasn’t that the market, the stock had bottomed or they didn’t think it could potentially go a little bit lower. What they’re saying was, listen, for the first time in a long time, we’re at levels where we wish we could see in terms of valuation. So companies like that are trying to be opportunistic, understanding that the worst is probably not over, but you got to sort of dip your toes at some point. I think you make a great point that, listen, these things are getting long in the tooth in terms of the moves we’ve seen lower, but that does not suggest we can’t see a little more pain to the downside. I think at some point this Federal Reserve is going to say we’ve done our work here and the lion’s share of the heavy lift is done and the market will take some solace in that as well. So the road to price discovery, the road to the other side of inflation is painful, somewhat circuitous, but necessary. And we’re sort of in the mid to late innings of that. But by no stretch of the imagination does it mean the worst is over. [00:05:23][68.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:05:23] Yeah. I’m really glad you brought up that activist fund star board making investments. Salesforce at its lows last week, Salesforce was down more than 50% from its all time highs last year. Guy, when you think about it, that company Starboard usually makes activist investments when they’re trying to effect some sort of change. I think they have a lot of confidence in the management of Salesforce. Marc Benioff Bret Taylor Obviously Stewart Butterfield is part of that team from that Slack acquisition, but they’re using, I guess the stock being cut in half is an opportunity to say, Hey, listen, we’re here, we’re going to support you, but you guys have to figure out how to better affect your cost structure, get your margins up. And that’s the story here. And so I think the point is about valuations. You don’t have to agree on what you think a proper valuation for a company that’s growing like this. This is Starboard is a company that’s made dozens of hundreds of investments in large technology companies. I think the most important part is the timing of it. To your point, Guy, is that they’re saying, okay, this bear market might be long in the tooth and valuations might be low enough the way that they see the world in technology is concerned. So that’s a really interesting point. We had Carter Braxton Worth on with us looking at some technicals of some tech stocks on the market call earlier this week. And he highlighted the stock like snap, snap, which is down 80 some percent from its all time highs a year ago. And so here this stock is, it’s kind of pinned between like ten and 12 bucks down from an all time high of like 80 or something like that. And again, here’s a company that’s already announced a restructuring, massive layoffs. They’re cutting business units. So I guess I would say, again, it’s really the timing of this after we’ve seen the price get absolutely demolished, we’ve seen sentiment go all the opposite way after shifting dramatically year over year. And some of these things might be getting so bad it’s good. Are you starting to feel that a little bit? Does Meta fall into that category to where the sentiment was so positive a year and a half ago? Now it’s so negative, down more than 60% from those all time highs. [00:07:20][116.4]
Guy Adami: [00:07:20] Yeah, I think Meta has its own animal. I mean, the problems that they face, a lot of them are self-induced, quite frankly. So but your point is well taken. And, you know, it’s one of those things history absolutely repeats itself. And you’ve talked about this one of the most important companies in the world, a name that obviously everyone knows Amazon. I mean, that stock during the dot com era or the dot com bust was down over 90%, again, just for emphasis over 90%. So you don’t think things like that can happen again and here we are in the midst of it. So a name like SNAP, for example, I mean, that stock could rally 100% from current levels and still be down probably over 75% from its all time highs. This becomes math at a certain point. But what you have to look at is are these opportunities here? So Starboard is clearly telling you an opportunity exist in a salesforce and those opportunities will present themselves again. But you mentioned something about improving margins. That’s code for effectively we’re going to have to fire people headcount reduction. And Gary Cohn today was speaking at a Yahoo! Event and he said one of the ways to see inflation relief is exactly that. We’re going to have to see job destruction, I’m quoting from him. So that’s obviously front and center. I think the Federal Reserve, they don’t want that necessarily through the lens of what happens to human beings, but they want it in their fight to quell and knock down inflation. [00:08:43][82.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:08:44] Yeah. So another company that’s been hard hit over the last year and has made some really big strategic moves, some that a lot of investors thought they would never do would be Netflix. And we’ve been talking about this kind of move to an ad supported model. Again, they’re trying to capture some of these accounts that have multiple users on their account. To me, I think it makes perfect sense, but I think the jury is still out. Whether this is something that will cannibalize their existing subscription base, we know that they had this huge pull forward during the pandemic. They have these huge costs for original content. We know a lot of their competitors have pulled their own original content off there. So they have to find ways, keep people on there and monetizing those users in some way, shape or form. This stock Guy and it’s lows was down I think 77% earlier in the summer. It showed really good relative strength was up 40, 50% or so. By the time the listener is listening to this podcast, you’re going to know at least the very early stages of this transition to an ad supported model. The companys going to report after the close today. I think expectations are not particularly high. Is this an important one to you? And that also falls into that category after a huge drop in the market in the stock. As far as the competitive landscape, this is going to be a really important quarter for this company. [00:09:58][74.7]
Guy Adami: [00:09:59] Yeah, it’s an important one to me. And through the lens of this, to me, it’s never been a pandemic play. I understand why people would look at it that way. I totally get it. But I mean, Netflix was relevant long before anybody heard the term COVID 19, and I think they’re going to remain relevant to your point. The stock got absolutely taken to the woodshed, down some 75% from peak to trough. But over the last couple of months since I want to say May showing decent relative strength and I would said in the spring and I’ll say it here now even with the move higher for the first time in a long time, you can actually make a compelling case for Netflix on valuation, which is something you never were able to say before. And. I will say this side note, I do think Reed Hastings is one of the great CEOs in this country. I do think he’s brilliant. And although obviously they fell on hard times for months into the spring, I think they’re figuring it out. I do think Netflix has to come out the other side of this thing, both as a company and a stock. [00:10:53][54.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:10:54] You and I have been doing fast money for over ten years together on CNBC, and I’ve heard you really nail some transitions for this company because this was obviously a favorite of theirs for a very long time, betting against Reed Hastings. And every single time I’ve heard you say I wouldn’t bet against him on this transition. It’s kind of always worked out. The speed in which the stock has dropped over the last year is the thing that is probably making people a little nervous about getting to in front of this next transition he’s taking on. But I’ll say this, if investors are disappointed about whatever they have to say about this, I think you got to be patient. I have no position in this one Guy. But if it was trading back below 200 after people are disappointed about their guidance on this ad supported network, I’d say why wouldn’t you buy it? All right. One last name here. Before we get out of here, we got to talk about Tesla. This is one that at its lows last week, it made a matched 52 week low. Going back a few months, it was down about 50%. You and I spent a lot of time on our podcast on CNBC talking about this one. One of the reasons why we think this is such an important name, it’s one of the largest market cap companies in the world, even down 40 some percent from those all time highs made last year. How important is this stock, given what they say about the quarter, what they say about guidance? We know that we’ve already seen deliveries for the Q3 here. But really, this stock, it feels like there’s such an embedded premium in there because of Elon Musk. We know that he’s very distracted with this situation, trying to buy Twitter. And you think about all the capital that he’s had to raise as far as the equity to put up to buy Twitter. A lot of it has come from his holdings in Tesla selling it over the last four or five months or so. And we know that there’s a lot of issues about the 12 and a half billion dollars in debt that had been pledged and some other equity to get this deal done. To you Guy, are they both wrapped up together, this Tesla in this Twitter situation? And are we on the precipice of maybe something really big happening? Because it’s not just for this stock and for Twitter, but it could be for the market when you think of it as the sixth largest stock in the S&P in the Nasdaq. [00:12:58][123.4]
Guy Adami: [00:12:58] Yeah. So a couple of things there I’ll try to address. I absolutely think Twitter and Tesla are embedded. We’ve talked about that for a while. And it’s not coincidence that Tesla is obviously taking this next leg lower on the heels of that Twitter bid, however many months ago, which was probably put out there as a bit of a joke, but it’s turned out to be a bit of a problem. And I think that’s why you’ve seen Tesla trade the way it has. The reason to me that Tesla is so important is because certain stocks sort of transcend the verticals that they basically work in. And I think Apple is one of those companies. I’m convinced Amazon is and Tesla is as well. And it speaks to market sentiment. When the market participants see a name like Tesla under pressure, they immediately sort of equate that to the health of the broader market. So that’s rarefied air to be in. Tesla finds itself in that rarefied air, and I think it’s important to watch not necessarily as an investing opportunity, but as a way to gauge the health or the, I guess, the overall concern or lack thereof of the broader market. [00:13:57][58.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:13:57] I agree with you there. And again, this stock was trading at its highs just a month ago above $300 Guy it traded 206 late last week. The bounce to 220 is not particularly that impactful other than the fact that it did it at a match low. I think this thing is a sale if it bounces off of those results. Our friends Benny and Porter from Sea Wall Capital were on on the tape with Danny Moses just yesterday. And that dropped in the podcast stores. And they both said, hey, listen, they’re going to do whatever they need to do to put up a decent quarter because he needs that stock to stay together. So if he needs to raise more capital to get that deal done, because the most important point is that a court in Delaware is forcing him to close on that deal, where they’re going to go to trial on October 28th. [00:14:43][45.4]
Guy Adami: [00:14:44] Well, so you have to ask yourself, is it worth the however many billion dollars that he’s going to give? It’s 40 billion or so dollars to not have to be deposed or testify. And when you’re deposed, Dan, they can pretty much ask any question about anything. And I think one of the reasons he wants this deal to go through, I think he’s willing to forego the money because he doesn’t want to have to testify and say things that, quite frankly, he probably doesn’t want the world to hear. That’s just my thoughts. I’m not suggesting it’s right, but it’s clearly out there. And by the way, just on a side note, I think there was an analyst downgrade today as well. I think it was Citi downgraded Tesla. So a lot of strange things happening around that name. [00:15:22][38.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:15:22] No doubt about it. All right. We’re going to hit that with Molly Jong-Fast. She’s that’s a beef guy with Elon Musk. I don’t know if you noticed that on the Twitter. Isn’t that kind of meta? So you see what I just did there with all those names. [00:15:32][10.0]
Guy Adami: [00:15:33] Yes you did that’s fantastic. I like when you said smash the like button or subscribe button [00:15:37][3.7]
Dan Nathan: [00:15:38] Smash the subscribe button for fast politics. All right. Listen, I really appreciate you joining me here Guy I love talking tech with you. Hopefully you’ll come back maybe the week that we get all those big names and we’ll talk about what happened and what we see for the markets going forward, because, again, those six or seven names are really dictating the course of the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq. All right. So stick around, everybody. When we come back, Guy and I sit down with Molly Jong-Fast of fast politics. [00:16:02][24.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:16:48] Current Ad. Masterworks Ad. Taboola Ad. Molly Jong-Fast is an author, podcaster and political commentator. She’s the host of the three Times weekly podcast Fast Politics Available Wherever You Listen To Podcasts. She’s also the writer of the What column for The Atlantic and the author of three books. Molly, welcome to okay Computer. All right, we’re back. This is okay, computer. As I said, the guest is so big, we needed to bring the big gun in here, which is Guy Adami. Here we have Molly Jong-Fast. She is someone that Guy Adami. Not only is she one of the smartest people on the interweb, but she’s also one of the most entertaining. We’re going to talk about her new pod. We’re going to talk about her newsletter. We’re going to talk about how she slays on the social a little bit. But Molly. Welcome to okay Computer. [00:19:11][142.8]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:19:12] Well, thanks for having me. Very excited to be here. [00:19:14][2.5]
Guy Adami: [00:19:15] The highest compliment I can give to somebody, in my opinion, is edgy and you are edgy as hell. And I love that. And the fact that you have the intelligence to back it up makes you lethal in everything you’re doing, not least of which Twitter. By the way, if you don’t follow Molly on Twitter, as I’ve said, Dan what are you doing? [00:19:32][17.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:19:33] You’re doing it wrong. Well, Molly, we’re going to talk about that politics. You just launched a new podcast on iHeartRadio. I have been honored to be on that podcast. You have a murderer’s row of guests over the last few weeks. It’s been super impressive and you’re the one generally asking the question. So we thought it would be really fun to kind of turn the tables on you a little bit, talk about how you use this media as well as anybody in any vertical we’ve seen do it. And to guys point not only your are you wicked smart and witty but you’re really entertaining. And I think that’s what really differentiates what you’re doing on fast politics. Talk to us a little bit about the evolution. You obviously write a newsletter for The Atlantic. You’ve been on Twitter and you have, what, a million followers? You get tons of engagement. Talk to us about how you got into podcasting. Why it’s such an important medium. We also see you on cable news, all that of. Talk to us about the podcast and why you made the move. [00:20:27][54.1]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:20:28] So, first of all, I love podcasting. It’s really, really fun. And I think that there’s sort of a need for it. I actually think that we’re still really in the early, early days of podcasting and we’re going to need more podcasts and that this audience is going to grow and grow and grow. And it’s exciting. It’s like the Wild West. I mean, there are people who’ve been doing it a long time, but there’s still like a desire for a lot. I’m on the more liberal side. There’s not a lot of content there. You see, the Conservatives are quite good at making content, monetizing that content and getting people engaged in their content. I mean, a thing I think about a lot is and I can’t remember who told me this because I talked to so many people on the podcast, but a Democratic strategist was saying to me that the largest get out to vote organizer of 2020 was Rush Limbaugh. And like, if you don’t see the power in that, this is a very powerful medium. And I think ultimately podcasts will eventually replace radio, just like streaming is sort of slowly replacing television. And so I do think we’re at the very beginning of a very exciting platform and I’m thrilled to be a part of it. [00:21:39][70.7]
Guy Adami: [00:21:39] Video killed the radio star for you playing our home game. And listen, I hear you. Obviously, I am not the target demographic because although I participate in numerous podcasts, the next podcast I listen to will be my first. No disrespect, but I’ll say this life becomes math. And I actually took the math in college. And what you’re saying is more and more podcasts are going to emerge, and that’s great. But at a certain point you talk about fragmented audiences and disenfranchized and those types of things. How do you deal with that? Because obviously, by definition, the more podcasts are, the more choices people have. And then your audience seems to be, again, correct me if I’m wrong, just gets narrower and narrower until people find exactly what they’re looking for. [00:22:25][45.3]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:22:25] I think we’re still really in the early days. I think that the people who are picking up podcast is still really growing. I think that if you think about radio, I mean there are 300 million people in America. People listening to podcasts are in the tens of thousands or even the top to top, top top podcast has 100,000, 100 plus thousand. I mean, there is a lot of room here and I think we’re seeing that. And the other thing about podcasts, which I think is super interesting, is they’ve figured out how to monetize in a way that magazines magazines went from magazines, piece of paper to online. Magazines have yet to figure out how to thread that needle and to monetize. And so as a creative person, it’s exciting to be in a medium that is both growing and knows how to monetize. [00:23:12][46.4]
Dan Nathan: [00:23:12] Yeah, you made a really great point, though, about Rush and just the Get Out the Vote. The first podcast I think I ever listened to was Kara Swisher. I was interested in tech, and then I started listening to Bill Simmons because I’m interested in sports and pop culture. And it really wasn’t until the 2016 election. I think I saw you on MSNBC. I’m like, Wow, she’s smart and funny and I can hang with her. And I think that is a really important part of this media because it’s a very personal sort of thing. You’re in my ear as I’m walking my dog or taking my kids to lacrosse practice or whatever the heck it is. And I think that’s really interesting. The other aspect about it is, and then I started listening to the crooked guys also and the ability to activate an audience, a listenership or something I think is really fascinating because they have taken activism as a main role. And really, I think what you’re doing is really fascinating. You’re bringing the most important people in your ecosystem on the news of the day and getting them to speak on it in a very digestible manner. How do you think about it? Because in your old podcast, I remember the intro and you and I talked about this off line a little bit. I thought, you’re over labeled yourself. [00:24:18][66.0]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:24:19] Yes, yes. [00:24:19][0.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:24:20] Do you know what I’m saying a little bit because there’s no reason to put yourself in a bucket because people of all different walks of life may be really interested in what you have to say no matter what you’re leaning. [00:24:30][10.4]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:24:31] Yeah, no question. And I think that what’s nice about being at iHeart is now I have a lot more freedom and I can really focus on giving listeners what they want. And luckily for me, I have very engaged listeners who write to me. I’m so grateful that they write to me. I like it even when they tell me stuff they don’t like because it gives me the chance to be better. So I have this opportunity to engage with them. I take feedback, I have open DMs, you can contact me as long as it’s not a death threat or something really gross. I’ll try to respond. And I do think ultimately I’m very lucky to be able to engage with them. And that’s the great thing about social media is, remember, I’m incredibly old and so I come from the 1990s where you had a problem with something you couldn’t ever say it. You could write a letter to the New York Times that might be published but probably wouldn’t be. I mean, this is just a completely different brave new world where people really have a voice, and that’s exciting to me. [00:25:27][55.7]
Guy Adami: [00:25:27] You said you’re really old and then you pulled a 1990s clip out of that. What does that make me, Dan? Because I think those late sixties with your ass. So that must make me like a relic. [00:25:39][11.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:25:39] Ancient it makes you ancient. [00:25:41][1.3]
Guy Adami: [00:25:42] Now it’s interesting. I think your work is amazing and I always gravitate towards really smart, edgy people. And you’re clearly one of them, as I mentioned earlier. But how do you prepare for the podcast? What I tell people all the time is they ask that question. I say natural curiosity takes you a long way in life, and my sense is that’s how you operate as well. But what’s your preparation like? What are you doing to get ready for basically all the things you’ve been doing? [00:26:07][24.6]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:26:08] Well, first of all, you have to know what’s going on. So I read a lot of news. I listen to a lot of political podcasts, but I also read the books when I’m interviewing somebody who wrote a book, I read all the material. You just have to be super up to speed. That said, there’s stuff that I miss. For example, Bloomberg had this totally huge story under Bloomberg government about how Republicans might want to use the debt ceiling as a way to threaten entitlements. It was a huge story. I missed that all weekend. And by the way, everyone else did too. I feel like there are definitely things that I missed, which I’m always shocked by and very irritating. [00:26:45][37.4]
Guy Adami: [00:26:46] Listen, you can’t get everything. Let me just follow up with that and say I understand why you’d say I missed it and you’re upset about that. But quite frankly, in our world, I mean, that’s a tax or tactic or something they’ve been using for decades. Well, literally decades in some form or another. So I understand why you beat yourself up, but by definition, it’s impossible with the amount of news that’s out there, with the amount of places to go, you’re going to miss things by definition. So I beat myself up all the time with this stuff, but at a certain point you can only take in so much. So there’s a level of frustration, I understand. But I will say I think you’re remarkable in your ability to not only take everything in, but then to synthesize it and to bring it to your audience. There’s a genius in that. Can you speak to that? [00:27:32][46.3]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:27:33] Yeah. I mean, I think that’s super important. And because there is so much news and I mean, that’s ultimately my job, right, is to read all the news, put it together, sort of try to figure out what’s strange and interesting, a pattern or a very hypocritical and strange thing that’s happening. So I try to always read the news with that idea. And I mean, the more I read and the more engaged I am, the more I will have the right examples in my brain. So yeah, it’s super important and I get a lot of morning newsletters, but I do wish that there were even more. I mean, I know this is going to sound very self-destructive, but I almost wish there were more newsletters that were even more fulsome that told me everything, you know, I just don’t want to miss stuff. And that is a huge anxiety of mine. [00:28:21][48.2]
Dan Nathan: [00:28:22] But it’s really interesting because a lot of people know Guy and myself, guy’s been. Doing CNBC’s Fast Money for what, 27 years? Guy And I’ve been doing it with you for what, 11 of those 27. [00:28:32][9.9]
Guy Adami: [00:28:32] Somalis nodding your head, you can’t see this, folks. But she’s like, Yeah, it’s should be doing it for the way he looks. It must be closer to 40 years. [00:28:38][6.2]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:28:39] No, I am. I’m just quietly. [00:28:40][1.6]
Dan Nathan: [00:28:41] We have a lot of people, if they’re into markets, they recognize us from CNBC. There’s not too many other places to get market news and the sort of commentary we do, but all of the sudden something’s kind of happened. I was down to this. Who? My daughter at Georgetown this weekend at two people who came up to me and show me their phone and say I listen to on the tape podcast, which I thought was really fascinating. And I told Guy that story. I was in a restaurant in New York a couple of weeks ago, and that kind of speaks to what you’re talking about in this medium. It’s just kind of scratching the surface a little bit. But again, I first saw you on MSNBC and I’m like, Oh, yeah, I know her. She’s a great author and I’ve heard about the books that you wrote. And now talk to us a little bit about the flywheel, because we’ll see you on MSNBC. You’re podcasting every other day with fast politics. You’re ever present on Twitter, you have a newsletter on the Atlantic. These are not small media organizations. Talk to us about that whole I guess you call it a flywheel. [00:29:38][57.1]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:29:39] Yeah, no, it’s a flywheel. I mean, it’s funny because it’s like I think that is true. And I do think we’re really at the beginning of podcasts and you can feel it in the air. I mean, I’ll be walking my dogs and someone will hear me yelling at my dog and be like, Oh my God, it’s you. And so I do think there really is a lot of growth there and people get media in different ways. So what I feel as I try to be available in those different venues for people to offer them my content, I mean, that’s all I can do. So I tweet, I write letters, I write these pieces, I podcast, and it all sort of works together. And then Gore Vidal always says, Never pass up a chance to have sex or appear on television. I pass up the chance for sex, but the television, not so much. So what can you do. [00:30:27][48.6]
Guy Adami: [00:30:29] Since you pulled a Gore vidal I’m going to pull an Eric Maria remark for you. French literature fans out there all quiet on the western front. So just indulge me for a second. Great book. They’ve obviously made that movie a couple of times. Netflix is making it a movie now. It looks like it’s going to be amazing. And I mention that because few history buffs out there, trench warfare is brutal. Both sides dig in. Both sides get into their bunkers and they don’t come out. I mention that because that’s what listen, forget about American politics going on all over the world, but let’s just stay here at home for a second. People are in their trenches. I mean, there’s one side of the equation that is firmly ensconced, the other side as well. And it’s very hard to bridge that divide and you try to do it, but it’s remarkably difficult to do because people are so dogmatic, they don’t give a shit. You could be telling them if it’s a beautiful day out and you say the sky is blue. If they disagree with you politically, it’s like bullshit, Molly, it’s raining out. How do you deal with that? [00:31:28][58.8]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:31:28] I mean, it’s a real problem. And the thing is, I keep thinking after Trump got elected, I thought, well, this is horrible, but how much worse can it get? And it just at every spot it’s gotten worse. So 2018 Democrats took back the House. I thought, Oh, okay, well, now got worse. 2020 Trump loses, I think, oh, well, they’ve defeated Trumpism, got worse. January six, he had an armed insurrection, got worse. I mean, it’s every single stage. American politics has gotten worse and worse. I mean, the people who voted to impeach Trump largely lost their primaries. The Republicans, I mean, I don’t know what happens. I just want American democracy to continue. That’s honestly that’s where I’m at. [00:32:18][49.9]
Dan Nathan: [00:32:19] We got to talk about that. But over the weekend, I saw the story in Bloomberg. And the cult of Trump is really something. It destroyed the GOP. And I think what guys are going back to is there was a time where you could live next door to a Republican and you could be a Democrat. And Obama used to say this all the time, it’s that stuff in the middle. We’re much closer to each other than the stuff that drives us apart. And I see this headline over the weekend, listen, I’m in your camp and I’m not shy about saying it on CNBC, on our podcast, on Twitter. I mean, to me, Trumpism is one of the most dangerous things that I’ve seen in my 50 years of life on this planet, about the way of life and the way that I was brought up and everything like that. With this headline, Donald Trump raised $24 million in the third quarter, a 41% increase over the previous quarter, but he spent $22 million to do it. And think about that. [00:33:11][51.8]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:33:11] No, that is a really good point. [00:33:12][1.3]
Dan Nathan: [00:33:13] And my comment to that is like he lost the house, he blew up his party, he was impeached, then he lost the Senate, then he lost the White House. Then he incited a deadly insurrection on our Capitol he got impeached again. And people are still paying into this Ponzi scheme. And it’s just fascinating. And so to me, I think a headline like that actually makes me feel better about things is that he has to work much harder to bring people or keep people under that ten or so and I actually think that’s a good Segway, I guess, to me, as we think about the midterms, obviously inflation, the economy, Roe, the overturning of it, these are huge issues. But one of the fascinating things on the flip side of it might be if some of these Trumpy candidates don’t do well in the general, then we might be on the other side of this. [00:34:05][52.2]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:34:07] 100%. And I actually think that that is the number one most important thing, is defeating these candidates who no longer believe in democracy. Kari Lake you may have seen yesterday. Dana Bash interviewed her on CNN. She said, will you accept the results? She said, We will win and I will accept that. That is not I will accept the results. And I think those candidates need to be punished by losing because Americans need to say, we believe in democracy. We are a democratic country. I mean, just from a business standpoint, I’m married to a VC. I see a lot of business stuff. I see a lot of small companies. Just from a business standpoint, kleptocracy is bad for the markets. We saw what happened in Russia. It’s bad for the economy. Democracy has given us prosperity and freedom and it needs to keep going. And so ultimately, I think the more voters can realize, like this is really about keeping our system of government going and not about smaller issues. I think that’s a really important point. [00:35:14][66.8]
Guy Adami: [00:35:14] Just to play devil’s advocate here. I will and I’ll say this, my vote is worth exactly that one person, one vote. So my opinion is no less important nor more important than anybody else’s. And there were 75 million or so people I don’t have the exact number in front of me that voted for Donald Trump in the last presidential election. That’s not an insignificant amount of votes. I think it’s a second amount of votes in the history of US presidential elections behind obviously Joe Biden. My point is this the people that voted for him, their opinions are as important as my opinion. That’s just the reality of the situation right now. So, yes, democracy’s in the balance, but quite frankly, a portion of the population seemingly wants it to go that way. Can you speak to that? [00:36:00][45.4]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:36:01] Yeah. I mean, it’s quite scary that a portion of the population doesn’t necessarily think democracy is the best way to go. My guess is that’s because they either think that ultimately these Republicans will keep democracy going or that once their Republicans are in power, they will not run a kleptocracy. But either choice is very unlikely. And so I think that, look, it’s a democracy. People have to vote. Not everybody’s going to agree. But I think that if we keep our head towards this sort of idea that democracy needs to keep going, that that will ultimately be enough people to keep democracy going. And look, it’s given us more than 100 years of prosperity and peace. So I think we should probably keep going with that. [00:36:46][45.6]
Guy Adami: [00:36:47] Alison, I agree with you. So there’s obviously this cult of personality thing that’s taking over again, not only our politics, but global without question. I mean, look across the globe and it’s clear that that’s what’s going on. But I’ll say this as well. I’m a lifelong registered Republican, but doesn’t mean I’m pulling the lever blindly. And this is now both sides of the aisle. I mean, they’re people that they could name the politician or the person running for whatever office it is. But if it says R next to his or her name, they’re pulling that lever. And the flip side, if it says D next to his or her name, they’re pulling that lever. And again, you spend think about you personally, the amount of hours you spend searching, researching, looking at dissecting the platforms of people, running them. I mean, you’re in the minority, not only in minority. I mean, you’re probably in the 1% of the populace that actually does it. How do you deal with that? Because that’s really where we are now as a country. [00:37:39][52.2]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:37:40] I hope that people will look at these candidates. Look, the more people watch debates, read the actual regular newspaper and not some partizan either side newspaper, the more they’re going to know. I mean, it’s hard to watch that Georgia Walker versus Warnock debate and vote for Herschel Walker. But I guess some people think that little badge is cute. I mean, you watch these debates. I think it’s pretty easy to see what’s going on here. And look, fundamentally in my mind, I think Democrats are not brilliant messengers. I think they tend to make a lot of mistakes. And if they didn’t, I think they’d win all the time. Right. Because the truth is, one party wants to keep the structure going to give you one title ments and the other party wants to give tax cuts to very rich people. And I say this as someone who has benefited from those tax cuts, I just think that ultimately tax cuts do not are not going to stop inflation. [00:38:39][58.5]
Dan Nathan: [00:38:40] If anything, they have a tendency to be inflationary and we’re seeing that in the UK. It’s interesting, last night my wife and I, we got done after some Sunday night football or after your Yankees won guy. How about that? You bring up the series, bringing it back to New York. So as the time you’re listening to this people, you will have already known that the Yankees will be going to the ALCS, right Guy Adami there. But you know what came on, it just literally was recommended to us that show Newsroom. It was a 2012 Aaron Sorkin thing and that opening scene where Jeff Daniels is asked this question in front of a big audience about why America is the best country in the world. And he takes a long minute and he thinks about it and he said, it’s not. And he starts rattling off all this stuff. And it’s really interesting. When I was just listening, you talk about that. I mean, again, we’re not the best and we have a democracy that feels like it’s on the brink, but it’s still a lot better than what’s going on in these other places. Which is your point, why we have to do everything that we can to preserve it. I think what’s happened since 2012, when Aaron Sorkin wrote that, is like, think about all of the misinformation that has really gone on. And you could say it’s a both sides thing. It really is. And when you think about a man like Warnock who is debating a man like Herschel Walker, and you think about that, one of them is going to be in the Senate, one of two senators from Georgia, one of 100 senators that represent the 50 states in our country. It’s insane. But it goes back to tribalism that there’s a lot of people and it goes back to Trump ism, that they’re willing to disregard all of the issues with that candidate so they can try to get a majority so they can push through their agenda. And talk to us a little bit about that, because look at the GOP, all of these people who came out after January six, they’ve all just kind of forgotten all of their criticisms of that violent insurrection. And they were either worried about being primaried or now they’re worried about retaking a majority in the House or the Senate. [00:40:37][117.0]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:40:37] Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because I had not to plug my podcast, but I did have Schumer today, Chuck Schumer talking about what happened in those hours on January six when he and Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell all were taken to a secure location. And we talked about how what it was like and that they were angry and that Mitch McConnell was furious. Kevin McCarthy was furious. I mean, there was a sense that people were actually quite furious about the situation they had been put into. That moment that Kevin McCarthy went down to Mar a Lago in January. Three weeks afterwards, I realized that they just were so obsessed with power they weren’t going to do the right thing. And look, you may not like Democrats. I’m a Democrat, but I certainly have my problems with where the Democratic Party is. But I like democracy and I don’t want to live in Russia. [00:41:37][59.7]
Guy Adami: [00:41:38] Democracy from our silo or from our vertical. I mean, you think about and this is going to sound glib, it’s not meant to be. But in order for markets to be efficient and to function properly, there has to be democracy has to be firmly ensconced in everything we do. So you just to mention your husband’s a VC, I’m sure you have these conversations, but marry are two worlds together. [00:42:00][22.6]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:42:01] You know what? It’s funny. I have a story from my wedding. November 23. I’m getting married to my husband. We are about to have his big wedding. He says to me, I own this Russian oil stock. He says, I don’t think that Putin is going to do anything to this oil company. It’s a huge oil company. It’s fine. I’m not going to worry about it. Putin decides to take it over. It goes to zero. If you have a dictatorship, you can’t have free markets. Period. Paragraph. That’s it. And that’s what we’re looking at. We’re looking at a world where you’re not going to have free markets. Look at DeSantis versus Disney. Disney is the biggest company in Florida, and DeSantis is messing with their taxing status because he’s mad at them for having gay employees. This is not business. This is not the party business. This is the party of dumb culture wars. And I think ultimately you’re going to see this more and more. This is not how you run an economy. And so, yeah, I think it’s quite scary. And I think that ultimately you may not like Democrats but like you don’t want a kleptocracy. Or here’s another scenario to make you guys crazy. What about a national divorce? That’s something Republicans love. That’s Brexit on steroids. That’s like, you know how Brexit has 11% inflation. Imagine the North and the South secede. Think about the regulatory nightmare. Think about the tariffs. That will be the kind of clusterfuck that will make Brexit look amazing. [00:43:35][93.9]
Guy Adami: [00:43:36] Now, it’s interesting. And again, just to play again, devil’s advocate, just to sort of hit it down the middle of the fairway. I watched Bernie Sanders on one of the shows, I think it was Meet the Press, and he was asked about inflation and again, their voices that will take the tack of demonizing corporate America. Big Oil. The reason why we have this runaway inflation is because of the profiteering of the oil companies, of the food companies. Listen, maybe there’s some semblance of truth in that, and I get it. But there’s that as well. So the Republicans do things on their side of the ledger, but quite frankly, they’re probably an equal amount of Democrats on that extreme side that will do the same thing in reverse. And I’m just throwing it out there because there is some truth to that. [00:44:14][38.2]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:44:15] But I want to push back for a second, which is and I say this as a person who is friends with Bernie Sanders friends is pushing it. But I’ve had him on the podcast. I just want to say Bernie Sanders is not the head of the Democratic Party. Joe Biden is the head of the Democratic Party for whatever that’s worth. And that’s not to say that I don’t agree with a lot of Bernie’s policies, etc., but that is true. I would also say Opec is a price fixing scheme. Opec is going to shrink those profits down to zero. And so is it Democrats fault for maybe not having more of a plan to get off oil, to be able to negotiate a sort of way down with oil? Probably. And there’s probably a more thoughtful way to ride oil down to renewables and that Democrats have not done for sure. I’ll give you that. But like, ultimately, what’s happening with Saudi is not about the price of oil. [00:45:08][52.9]
Guy Adami: [00:45:09] I totally get what you’re saying. And to sort of elaborate on that, the Trump administration went to Opec in the spring of 2018. I think don’t ask me if I’m off by a month or so. But when oil was cascading lower, the administration went to them, I’m paraphrasing to a certain point and said, listen, we need you to cut production to the tune of 10 million barrels a day. So we’ve played both sides of that equation with both parties. [00:45:33][24.8]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:45:34] And, you know, as much as there’s a lot of inflation that was caused by a lot of different factors, let’s remember that Trump was bullying the Fed to keep interest rates low even when the economy was killing it. [00:45:46][12.1]
Guy Adami: [00:45:48] 100% Molly, I’ve said that a hundred times. I said this was a candidate Trump prior to the election that talked about how the Federal Reserve was basically kowtowing to the Obama administration. They were keeping rates artificially low in their bubbles, blah, blah, blah. They’re doing it all wrong. As President Trump, he browbeat Jerome Powell into submission in the fall of 2018. Basically, we need to get rates lower. We need to our dollar needs to be lower. All that, you’re 100% right. So a lot of the inflation we’re seeing now, the seeds were sown not only in the Biden administration, which hasn’t helped, but the Trump administration, which started it off. And I can go back further than that it doesn’t matter. [00:46:26][38.5]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:46:27] But also modern monetary theory, I mean, they were printing money until inflation hit. There was a feeling that we could always just print money and it would be fine. [00:46:34][7.8]
Guy Adami: [00:46:35] You want to get somebody on, you should have Stephanie Kelton on your podcast and ask her these questions because there was a window of time where the MMT crowd was absolutely had a stranglehold on things. I think to a certain extent those voices have died down a bit, but there’s still a faction of people that firmly believe that’s the way to go. [00:46:54][18.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:46:55] Yeah, well, we would talk about the Trump tax cuts from 2017. I mean, basically they borrowed a trillion and a half dollars for the future and handed it to corporations, the donor class, all that. And again, those were where a lot of the seeds were sown for the sort of inflation. And again, Guy has been saying this on fast money for as long as I can remember, because a lot of there’s a lot of market strategists, a lot of market participants. When the Fed started the easy monetary policy during the financial crisis, people were screaming that it was going to lead to runaway inflation. And when you think about technology, it was very disinflationary. So you had this counterbalance. But Guy had been saying this. And again, to no one listening, we’re seeing education, we’re seeing it housing, we’re seeing it in health care. And so these were areas where people were feeling it every day. But you weren’t feeling at the pump. You weren’t feeling it in food. We didn’t have wage inflation. So those are issues that they have been bipartisan. And I just think that in election years we see who they get blamed on. But Guy, you mentioned cult of personality and our friend Molly, she’s got a little beef with a guy who’s pretty as a kids would say, Trumpy af and he’s probably next to you who has a million Twitter followers. You’re probably one of a few hundred. Elon Musk has got over a hundred million Twitter followers and you got beef with him. And you and I have talked about it on your podcast. I know that you write about it a little bit. Well, he gets all up in your grill every once in a while. Molly, what’s up with that? [00:48:18][83.4]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:48:18] I would just say this. I think Elon Musk is the emperor has no clothes. And I do you think ultimately that he won’t buy Twitter, that he can’t get the money, that he can’t secure the debt, that it will end up he’ll lose his voting rights and Tesla. And I think that ultimately he won’t do it. I could be wrong, but I just think that this guy is full of shit. I know. But again, curse. I mean, certainly he’s done good stuff and I’m what he’s gotten a lot of good government subsidies to get there and there are a lot of people who are very smart and do interesting stuff. [00:48:52][33.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:48:53] You and I are in agreement and we’re probably two of the only people that I know who think that this deal will get done with him buying it. And I think that it probably gets pushed out. They have until October 28th, the judge has said, until they close this deal. But for all the reasons that you just mentioned, William Cohen had a brilliant piece on Puck News last week about this. And I actually also agree that I think he’s full of shit. And one of the things that we do on okay computer is we really put almost every gas to the fire because the linking of him up and down, the idea that he’s some sort of rocket scientist and now political science, he’s none of the above. [00:49:28][35.0]
Molly Jong-Fast: [00:49:29] Right. But I would say there’s a good lesson here, which is he had a really good reputation until he started with the hot takes. And if you’re the CEO of a company, you don’t have to have hot takes. You can just CEO. [00:49:40][11.1]
Dan Nathan: [00:49:41] Well, he can’t help himself. It’s not too different than Trump sitting on the can every morning with his iPhone and the Twitter app. And he literally cannot help himself. So to me, I agree with you and look at the way Kanye has just unwound his access to these platforms. He cannot control himself. And with Elon, he’s had run ins with the SEC, he’s had run ins with all sorts of things because of his Twitter habit. And isn’t it just fascinating that he wants to spend $44 billion of his own money to do this, to buy this thing? It just seems very odd. You and I, I think when we were plotting earlier in the year, I said he just needs a hug. All right. Listen, Molly Jong-Fast, we are so honored to have you. Come on. Okay, computer. We had to, like I said, bring in the big gun Guy Adami to have this conversation. Fast politics is your new pod. People get in there. Subscribe. Leave a review. You’re doing it Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. And like I said, you’ve had everybody who’s anyone in politics, Senator Schumer this week, Bernie, you’ve had Kara Swisher. Eric Swalwell I mean, the list goes on and on. Julia Louis-Dreyfus You had the veep on, which was a fascinating thing. So we wish you tremendous success in this new podcast. We hope you’ll come back to okay computer and we will be listening to you or hear you on the pod. [00:51:01][80.4]
Guy Adami: [00:51:02] Find it. I love saying this part, Molly. It’s my favorite thing. I don’t even know what it means, but I like saying it. Find Molly at your favorite podcast store peeps. [00:51:10][7.8]
Dan Nathan: [00:51:13] Thanks again to our presenting sponsor Current and our supporters Masterworks and Taboola for bringing you this episode of okay Computer. If you like what you heard, make sure you hit, follow and leave us a review. It helps people find our show and we want to hear from you. Email us at contact at risk reversal scam. Follow and connect with us on Twitter at OC Computer Pod. We’ll see you next time. [00:51:13][0.0]
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